Weapons Ratings...

Moderators: Vis Bellica, Laffe

Uralus
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:09 pm

Re: Weapons Ratings...

Post by Uralus »

Belt fed LMG like the MG34/MG42.

JimLeCat
Posts: 812
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:57 pm
Location: Durham, England

Re: Weapons Ratings...

Post by JimLeCat »

Hi,

I would treat the LMG team version as a belt-fed LMG (i.e. 8D6) and the machine gun squad version as a tripod mounted MMG (i.e. 10D6), even though they are basically the same weapon. Why? The latter has a dedicated crew of 5 men serving it, as opposed to the 3 man crew of the LMG team, so they have more ammunition to hand, are probably carrying more spare parts, and have more spare hands to make sure everything is running smoothly.

Cheers,
Jim

EvilGinger
Posts: 990
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2013 3:01 am

Re: Weapons Ratings...

Post by EvilGinger »

I would be inclined to rate it as an MG but will pass that buck to Richard.

:evil: Ginger
Dark lord at large....

User avatar
Vis Bellica
Posts: 414
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:59 am
Location: Buckinghamshire, UK
Contact:

Re: Weapons Ratings...

Post by Vis Bellica »

I agree with Jim: depends how the gun is being used.

As part of a rifle squad, with that level of crew, ammunition and equipment (tripod etc), then it counts as an LMG.

As a separate entity, with that level of crew, ammunition and equipment, it counts as an MMG.

Factor depends on what it is being used for.

R

User avatar
Truscott Trotter
Posts: 8318
Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:11 pm
Location: Tasmania the Southernmost CoC in the world

Re: Weapons Ratings...

Post by Truscott Trotter »

I know wiki has its limits but I agree with it here, the M1919 is indeed a tripod MMG not an LMG. The definitions are more about function than weight.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1919_Browning_machine_gun

FWIW I believe the only real LMG in the US forces is the Johnson and that was IIRC used by Marines and the FSSF only
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1941_Johnson_machine_gun
the BAR really was no the sameperfimance as the Bren the Johnson was similar however.

JimLeCat
Posts: 812
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:57 pm
Location: Durham, England

Re: Weapons Ratings...

Post by JimLeCat »

Hi Truscott,

I know that - which is why I am happy it can serve as an MMG, even though the tripod isn't in the same class as those of other MMGs (6.4kg versus about 20 for the MG42 or Vickers), however my thought was that a 5 man crew versus a 3 man crew makes a significant difference in the performance of the weapon.

That does bring up the question of whether section 7.4 applies, which would make a 3 man crew fairly fragile for handling one of these (lose one man and you're at -1 pip on movement, lose 2 and you can't move the weapon at all!).

Cheers,
Jim

sunjester
Posts: 281
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:06 pm
Location: Buckinghamshire UK
Contact:

Re: Weapons Ratings...

Post by sunjester »

I think the Browning M1919 is usually considered a medium machinegun rather than a light machinegun. It was basically an air-cooled version of the water-cooled M1917 used in WW1. I think the reference on page 94 is a printing mistake, caused by a hangover from the fact that in most organisation lists the squad consists of a rifle team and a lmg team, rather than implying that the M1919 is in fact a lmg.

User avatar
Truscott Trotter
Posts: 8318
Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:11 pm
Location: Tasmania the Southernmost CoC in the world

Re: Weapons Ratings...

Post by Truscott Trotter »

Ahhh right I see now on P 94. The US Paras had a different set up IIRC
They carried the aircooled M1919 and had them in pace of the BAR
I would treat them the same as the belt fed German LMG with a crew of 3 and a ROF of 8D6. Do not worrya bout the tripos.
TO&E also has them in a separate plt of M1919A's but they were usually parceled out tot he combat plts on a routine basis and that is what I think Rich has done with the force org on p 94 refers to.- in support list 4

Richard
Site Admin
Posts: 1734
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2013 7:50 am

Re: Weapons Ratings...

Post by Richard »

The M1919 is an oddity as its a bipod LMG with an additional leg! :D

I think you need to consider the way it is being used. As a quad weapon it is definitely a belt fed LMG, like the MG32 or similar. When in a sustained fire role and with a larger crew then treat it as an MMG.

Rich

mickscales
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2013 7:55 am
Location: Hexham, Northumberland, England

Re: Weapons Ratings...

Post by mickscales »

Jafo - that is a very succinct way of putting what I was about to say, having come to this thread somewhat late. Read the period then the rules - brilliant!

Mick

Post Reply