Weapons Ratings...

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exchook
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Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 2:35 am
Location: Sydney, Australia

Weapons Ratings...

Post by exchook »

Had my first bash at these rules yesterday and I have to say I am pleasantly surprised, the Patrol phase brings a new and unique element to the game and the game mechanics make for some interesting decision making.

I was showing the rule book to my 17 year old son and he made an excellent comment. How do you know which nation has which type of rifle and machine gun.

I then looked at the army lists and noted that Germans, Brits and Russians are armed with rifles while the US are armed with M1 Garands. The question put to me was how does the reader of the rules know (without previous knowledge) which soldiers are armed with bolt action rifles and which are armed with semi automatic rifles.

This then lead to me thinking this also applies to the machine guns, the Brit machine gun is a Bren no where is this weapon noted in the Master Arsenal on Table 4. Along with the various other machine guns that are used by each nation in particular the various .30Cal machine guns used by the US.

The information as listed is fine for two experienced gamers/historians but when relating this to new players it can lead to some confusion.

"How do you know the Garand is a semi automatic rifle?"
"Because historically it was!"
"But where in the rules does it say that it is?
and this conversation can go on ad infinitum with a teenager!!!!

Any chance of an officail errata clearing this up????

EvilGinger
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Re: Weapons Ratings...

Post by EvilGinger »

They are not there because the rules assume an effective equivalence between different types of bolt action rifles, and the same with magazine fed & belt fed LMG's any subtle differences are largely reflected in special rules & are as much to do with drill and training as the weapon.

:evil: Ginger
Dark lord at large....

seldon
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Re: Weapons Ratings...

Post by seldon »

Good catch.. very true.. not everyone will no things like the bren not being belt fed..

Francisco

EvilGinger
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Re: Weapons Ratings...

Post by EvilGinger »

True but there is also a limit to what you can put in a book so you have to assume some knowledge. Perhaps adding a note to the army listings would deal with this.

:evil: Ginger
Dark lord at large....

exchook
Posts: 141
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Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Weapons Ratings...

Post by exchook »

Sorry EvilGinger but I would disagree. There is a rule about assuming things!

The rules need to be clear and concise about the weapons used, considering a large portion of the game mechanics relies upon these definitions to determine the number of dice to roll when shooting.

The game designers have said (and I agree) that they can not write rules to cover every situation, but surely they could have allowed a little extra type print to define the weapons listed in the force lists.

I use the Russians as an example, who cares that their LMG is the Degtyaryov, what is important is whether it is a magazine or belt fed machine gun, so that I can apply the necessary dice additions to either my own or my opponents dice pool when shooting.
Last edited by exchook on Sun Sep 29, 2013 6:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

Richard
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Re: Weapons Ratings...

Post by Richard »

Errata? Frankly, no. For someone starting a new period this is the perfect opportunity for them to do the most basic of research to discover what weapons are being used.

All riflemen are armed with a bolt action rifle, all of which are considered to be the same. Anyone armed with anything different is noted as such. Finding such basic information is not difficult and should be encouraged.

Rich

exchook
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Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Weapons Ratings...

Post by exchook »

Shame, really that a good rule set like these lack the basic information to allow to people to pick up a few figures and have a bash all for the sake of a few definitions...

Alan Charlesworth
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Re: Weapons Ratings...

Post by Alan Charlesworth »

WWII has a steep learning curve when it comes to the huge variety of weapons, how they were used and by whom.

But that's part of the fun of historical wargaming - finding out more about the strategy, tactics and weapons of the period.

I wouldnt expect any set of rules to cover all that material in detail if at all.

Owning a lot of WWII rule sets I can tell you that they all assume a certain amount of basic knowledge or the willingness to acquire it.

TFL rules tend to include a lot more of the basic information than most.

jafo
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Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:10 am

Re: Weapons Ratings...

Post by jafo »

"Finding such basic
information is not difficult and
should be encouraged."

Add a supplemental tagline :
"Read the period THEN the rules" :)

Or someone could write a free pdf for those who just want the basic 'WW2 infantry 101'

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John Thomas8
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Re: Weapons Ratings...

Post by John Thomas8 »

:shock:

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