US armored rifle confusion

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Truscott Trotter
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Re: US armored rifle confusion

Post by Truscott Trotter »

+1 is not that much of a difference to worry about. The more important question is do they become AT weapons teams like the HQ bazooka?
If not (and I personally think they should ) then how do they fire?
Do they fire their bazooka at same time that team fires its rifles and for the same cost?
That makes them different than Panzerfausts and much more useful.
Or do you spend one CI on the Zooka and 1 CI on the reast of the team - that makes them more like fausts
KISS make them weapon teams so they can go off and hunt tanks and you avoid all those questions.
Cheers
TT (ducking behind parapet as all the AR fans open fire :))

PaulJ
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Re: US armored rifle confusion

Post by PaulJ »

I was assuming you had to make them separate weapons teams, don't you need a senior leader to make a bazooka or any AT weapon fire at an infantry target. Therefore they can only be used against armoured targets normally. I worked on the principle they have a bazooka with them and until a leader creates a team to use it they are normal riflemen. After that they are dedicated AT team who think hunting tanks is fun and easy. That is simple does not make them too powerful and allows you to keep at least one team off board to ambush passing panzers. See TT an AR player and fan agrees with you!
PS armoured rifles don't have the HQ team of normal US infantry, but a rifle squad.

Neil Todd
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Re: US armored rifle confusion

Post by Neil Todd »

I still think they stay with their squad as a separate team with a choice to farm out the none HQ squad one.

HQ squad description
Option:  Two men may be removed to form a  Bazooka Team 
Normal Squad description
Option:  Two men may be removed to any Squad  to form a Bazooka Team 
I read that as the one in the HQ squad stays with the HQ squad the two from the normal squads may be attached to any squad, So if you wanted a serious tank hunting unit you could attach both to the HQ squad and have 3 Bazookas in it.

poiter50
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Re: US armored rifle confusion

Post by poiter50 »

And activated by the Loot or the Pl Sgt?

PaulJ
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Re: US armored rifle confusion

Post by PaulJ »

I have to say Neil I am not convicted by your argument because you still have your riflemen in the HQ squad so it isn't a tank hunting unit, besides the HQ squad still says "may be removed" so they are no longer part of that squad. If I remember from a TOE/ order of battle that someone sent round last time we discussed armoured rifles it was suggested practice to leave at least one bazooka team to protect the mortars etc from armour, therefore if Richard has read that then it may be the mortar squad or MG squad to which you attach an AT team to give them some protection.
Actually it sounds a good idea in some games, in addition to the always keep one baz team off table in order to ambush option.

Neil Todd
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Re: US armored rifle confusion

Post by Neil Todd »

Paul I read the HQ squads 'may be removed' as removed from the Rifle team and the new Bazooka team therefore is part of the squad. If the the squads 1-2 option was worded the same as the HQ one then I would be more inclined to lean the way of separate tank hunting teams.
The squads 1-2 option more clearly states that they are removed and can be attached to any squad. Thus if you want you can have three bazookas in the HQ squad if you want or you could leave them with their own squads or attach them to the Mortar or LMG's

Poiter in a Squad they would fire on a 1 as an individual team, on a 2 as a squad on a 3 by command of the JL or on a 4 from a SL. However it is only on a 4 that they could fire their bazookas at a target other than an armored one.

hedgehobbit
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Re: US armored rifle confusion

Post by hedgehobbit »

PaulJ wrote:If I remember from a TOE/ order of battle that someone sent round last time we discussed armoured rifles it was suggested practice to leave at least one bazooka team to protect the mortars etc from armour, therefore if Richard has read that then it may be the mortar squad or MG squad to which you attach an AT team to give them some protection.
The rifles squads don't need to detach their bazooka teams to protect the mortar or LMG squad because both of those squads had their own bazooka teams.

I've read the US field manuals backwards and forwards and I never found a line that could even be misread to imply that the bazooka teams were wandering around the battlefield hunting tanks. They were part of the squad and under the command of the squad leader.

As to the US mortar squad in the armored platoon, there were five men with carbines (including the squad leader), a driver with a SMG, and two riflemen with M1s who would form the bazooka team. The rocketeer would generally leave his rifle in the half-track in this case.

Unlike the Pazergrenadiers, the US write-up in the rulebook is inconsistent in handling the half-track driver. Including them in rifle squads one and two but ignoring them in the HQ, mortar, and LMG squad.

PaulJ
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Re: US armored rifle confusion

Post by PaulJ »

Must be said Hedgehobbit I agree with you in that it is inconsistent and not very accurate, I wonder if Rich had an issue with the size the squad would end up being. Or that several men would remain with the transport as that would be off table. And certainly nothing suggests that they group together to hunt tanks. I do think that holding a bazooka team off board to ambush aggressive armour is fair enough.
But I think the suggestion of roaming packs of bazookas in the HQ squad is implausible, not historically accurate, and plain odd.
Thank you for your correction I knew I had seen something, I just didn't have it in front of me.

Neil Todd
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Re: US armored rifle confusion

Post by Neil Todd »

The HQ hunting pack was never a serious suggestion Paul it was just an example of what could be done, I for one would be more inclined to leave my Bazookas with the Units they originated from. More chance of out flanking that way.

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Seret
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Re: US armored rifle confusion

Post by Seret »

Neil Todd wrote: Poiter in a Squad they would fire on a 1 as an individual team, on a 2 as a squad on a 3 by command of the JL or on a 4 from a SL. However it is only on a 4 that they could fire their bazookas at a target other than an armored one.
They fire on a 1, or under command from a leader using a command initiative. So no firing on a 2.

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