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Re: PTO Here we go!

Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 7:59 am
by Tom Ballou
Funny I ran them through the first CoCalculator and came up with a +4 or +3 rating (possibly a +2, with a SJL, and correcting for 5 dice LMGs)

Each rifle squad 23 (9 rifles, magazine LMG 2 crew, 2 ammo carriers, JL)
If you correct for the LMG only having 5 dice [22]

The mortar squad 24 (3 knee mortars, 9 ammo carriers, JL) treating knee mortars as 50mm mortars.
Else as grenade launchers 18 points

2 x SL = 18 or SL and JSL = 15 (assuming the platoon sgt with 2 CI)

69 + 24 + 18 = 111 (109) +4 [108/106] [+4/+3]
69 + 18 + 18 = 105 (102) +3 [102/99] [+3/+2]

Iā€™m not sure where they arrived at a +1 rating. Not to mention huge resilience with large sections...

Re: PTO Here we go!

Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 12:48 pm
by edleland
The ammo carriers are free in the Coculator, which is where I think the discrepancy is.

Re: PTO Here we go!

Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 1:23 pm
by Tom Ballou
edleland wrote: ā†‘
Thu May 17, 2018 12:48 pm
The ammo carriers are free in the Coculator, which is where I think the discrepancy is.
From the CoCulator per Rich:
Most teams are valued at one point per firepower dice. So a six man rifle team is worth six points and a four man MG34 team is worth 10 points (8 for the LMG and 2 crew, 2 for the two ammunition carriers who lug the ammo about but who can fire). Where a weapon team is listed as split between crew and riflemen the crew are counter as firing the weapon, the riflemen are counted as being extra. So a Bren with three crew is 6 points.
I'm also assuming the Knee Mortar only has a single crew to fire, and the three other guys are ammo bears each adding 3 dice in theory. Since the Knee Mortar is an indirect fire weapon, and used as platoon mortar maybe the 3 points each, and free ammo bearers. But since its truly and up close and personal support (min range of 12") your in rifle range. So I think the ammo bearers count.

Re: PTO Here we go!

Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 2:12 pm
by edleland

That refers to riflemen that are part of the team but aren't part of the MG crew. For example, a Panzergrenadier Squad usually has a team with: 3 man LMG + 2 rifles and a team with 3 man LMG team + 1 Rifle. The first team costs 8 (for the LMG) and 2 for the extra rifles that can fire. The 3rd man in the LMG crew is free.

In the case of the 4 man LMG team in the Coculator, its a 2 man LMG crew + 2 rifles (that can fire) not a 4 man LMG crew. Extra crew are free, extra riflemen are not. I think you can make a pretty good argument that extra crew beyond 2 should be worth something (0.5 each maybe) but that's not how it's currently written - it's all based on the firepower dice the unit puts out.

Re: PTO Here we go!

Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 7:40 pm
by Munin
And even apart from the idea of "crew" for crew-served weapons, part of the issue is what the ammo bearers are actually doing. Are they actively engaged with the enemy and contributing to the platoon's overall weight of fire? Or are they, you know, carrying ammo? Running back and forth to the rear areas bringing more rounds up to the front, handling logistical details, pulling flank security for the men operating the mortars, etc? What are they actually doing?

We don't count bat-men and runners into a platoon's Force Rating either, and largely for the same reason - their contribution isn't to the unit's total firepower, it's to its command and control.

Re: PTO Here we go!

Posted: Fri May 18, 2018 12:56 am
by redmist1122
Munin wrote: ā†‘
Thu May 17, 2018 5:10 am
redmist1122 wrote: ā†‘
Thu May 17, 2018 1:16 am
Plus have these been blessed by the Lardie daddies?
It's hosted on their blog, so I'ma say yes.
Okay...I stand corrected, I definitely missed this one on their blog. The other lists we used were from other players and the home-brew campaign for Malaya.

I was using the MS Excel spreadsheet which had the French launchers and used that in place and added four crew for each. I gues the valuse is different between the Japanese and French launchers. Makes sense.

Thanks much guys!

Re: PTO Here we go!

Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:45 pm
by pjadams804
Hey guys Sorry to Necro this but was anything further done with the Pacific Marines besides the one list. I looked through the blog and did a search but nothing really hit