Pacific Lists,

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siggian
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Re: Pacific Lists,

Post by siggian » Mon Dec 15, 2014 3:44 pm

Or Rich posts them for free here, but provides a compilation PDF for a modest price. I'd pay the price of a pint for the convenience of the compilation PDF.

I put this suggestion out there because Rich has said that he didn't want to charge for the lists when he first put out the game. This allows him to keep his word while helping offset the costs incurred to compile the lists.

sackatatties
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Re: Pacific Lists,

Post by sackatatties » Mon Dec 15, 2014 5:00 pm

Here's a Japanese site I found incredibly useful. It's stuff translated from Japanese sources. Orbats and photos - Armour orientated though.

http://www3.plala.or.jp/takihome/

and this from official US War Department WW2 army documents:

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/Japan/IJA/HB/index.html <--gives the full Japanese breakdown.

From ibiblio:

Japanese Infantry rifle company 1944 ("A" type without heavy weapons platoon).

The company consists of a company commander, usually a captain, a company headquarters, and 3 rifle platoons. Total strength is 205 officers and enlisted men.

Strength analysis.
(a) Company commander. Captain or First Lieutenant.

(b) Company headquarters (command section). 18 men.
  • 1 Warrant officer in charge of personnel
    1 Sergeant major in charge of personnel records
    1 Noncommissioned officer in charge of supply
    1 Noncommissioned officer in charge of arms and equipment
    10 Runners and orderlies (including buglers)
    4 Medical orderlies
(c) 3 Rifle platoons (each 62). 186 officers and men.

1. No. 1 Rifle platoon.
  • 1 Platoon commander
    1 Liaison noncommissioned officer
  • 3 rifle-light machine gun sections (noncommissioned officer and 14 men)
    1 grenade discharge section (noncommissioned officer and 14 men)
2. No. 2 and No. 3 rifle platoons. Same as No. 1.

Equipment.
There are in the company 150 rifles, 9 light machine guns, and 12 grenade dischargers.

jarhead60mm
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Re: Pacific Lists,

Post by jarhead60mm » Mon Dec 15, 2014 10:55 pm

USMC Late 1943-1945
Senior and junior leaders should be carrying either a M1 rifle or the M1 carbine. There were no smg's in the infantry regiment TO&Es. Series E had 78 Thompsons, Series F and G divisions only had 49 Thompsons in their TO&Es. Info from Vol. 5 USMC Operations in WWII.
Terry

Berlichtingen
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Re: Pacific Lists,

Post by Berlichtingen » Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:31 am

A few things pertaining to the USMC of 1944-45.

Each fire team had a BAR and a rifle grenadier. Each platoon had three flamethrowers, and usually three demolition packs. The intention was for each squad to get one each, but it became standard practice to give all to one 'assault' squad. In either case, the flamethrower and demo charges were issued to riflemen, so the teams still had their BARs and rifle grenades. From 1944 on, the Marine squads generated an absurd amount of firepower.

I'm not sure how to represent this and Chain of Command but the leadership of the Marines squad is unpresidented in World War II. It was the birth of what today's military considers a fire team. The organization was a direct response to command problems experienced from Quadelcanal through Tarawa, so by Iwo Jima, each squad was led by a sergeant and three corporals

Nick B
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Re: Pacific Lists,

Post by Nick B » Wed Dec 17, 2014 9:01 am

Late war Marine platoons are going to be very, very expensive. The thing that drives up the cost is the Junior leaders. Nosher recently did a RM Commando list which is also very high in NCO's (but considerably less fire power)and that netted a +18 support factor.

In the case of the Marines their structure and weaponry was a development of necessity so it will be important that the terrain they face is appropriately harsh and that the Japanese have access to a range of strong points and bunkers in the commensurate period list.

I guess it's a case of building the idealised Marine list but then considering what caused them historical issues in action and ensuring that these are reflected to give a challenging game to mirror the tough battles they had to fight and win but at a high cost.

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john de terre neuve
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Re: Pacific Lists,

Post by john de terre neuve » Wed Dec 17, 2014 1:08 pm

I agree fully with paying for a compilation pdf of amended original and new platoon lists for CoC. I believe it would be really useful to have them in one place (I must have 6 lists for the Soviets alone with Winter War, Winterstorm and Late War).

Combined with the new Master Arsenal list this would be well worth the price of 3 pints.

John

Richard
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Re: Pacific Lists,

Post by Richard » Wed Dec 17, 2014 9:27 pm

Lads

Apologies for absence, I really buggered my back up on Sunday clearing up the office post the Christmas Special. I've been flat on my back ever since and have only just got to sit at the computer.

1. I SHOULD have been reviewing all the lists this week, but lying horizontal didn't assist that. I'll be doing them ASAP, at least as soon as I can sit at my desk for a decent period of time.

I'll be reviewing the lot and putting them all in one document for you. No charge.

Rich

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john de terre neuve
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Re: Pacific Lists,

Post by john de terre neuve » Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:41 pm

I'll be reviewing the lot and putting them all in one document for you. No charge.
Rich
Damn and I wanted to buy you a pint!

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Truscott Trotter
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Re: Pacific Lists,

Post by Truscott Trotter » Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:46 pm

Just do what I did John - buy a few of the back copies of TFL Summer and Xmas specials

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Teufelhunden
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Re: Pacific Lists,

Post by Teufelhunden » Thu Dec 18, 2014 4:23 am

A quick note on all three USMC lists, for the BAR, it is only served by one individual, so the second "crew" should actually be a rifleman. Though the TO&E identifies an Assistant, this person did not actually serve the weapon, but functioned as a Rifleman who carried extra bandoliers of ammo. This is also identified by Rich on the Official CoCulater thread in a post dated November 4th.

As mentioned earlier, the later list is the Marine Corps at its pinacle in WWII. There should be an option for Elite with this list, and 6 command dice. I also have been looking for a way to represent the Fire Team, and how leadership was pushed down to the lowest level in this organization. My initial thought was to have each Fire Team Leader be a Junior Leader, but I think that is too strong, as they should not be as influential as a Squad Leader. What I'm thinking is to have them as a Junior Leader, but only with 1 CI, a command radius of 3", and can only influence their team with a cost of 3 points. Maybe create another leader class, as was done with the Superior Junior Leader for the Italians. Call it a Team Leader (TL). The thought was this would allow the teams to be activated on a 1 or a 3 making them more responsive. Obviously, this would take some play testing. There is still going to be a limitation because there are only so many command dice to go around. Each Fire Team would consist of a Team Leader with M1 and Grenade Launcher, Rifleman with M1 and Grenade Launcher, Automatic Rifleman with the BAR, and Assistant Automatic Rifleman with an M1. Then as Berlichtingen pointed out, the flame thrower, and demolitions could be added.

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