Suggestions for US Marine special rules

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Will3T
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Re: Suggestions for US Marine special rules

Post by Will3T » Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:04 pm

Levi the Ox wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 5:03 pm
Do you plan on keeping the Marching Fire ability, or removing it? The combination of mobility and firepower it offers units activated by leaders is withering!

Some of the late-war lists give the Marine Junior Leaders 3 initiatives to handle their 3 teams. You could use that rule earlier in the war, although I suspect it would be very powerful (having not played it myself). That being said, the focus of the game system is already the emphasis on leadership in action, would you rate US Marines higher in that regard than the German practice of Auftragstaktik that also emphasized lower-level initiative?
American and British platoons are the only nations who regularly have two full senior leaders in their platoons, with many other forces often rating the platoon sergeant as an Inferior Junior Leader or simply being stretched too thin to have one.
Marching Fire would be removed for my project here, it is a powerful tactic but not sure of its use in the Pacific. Could possibly make the JLs activate on 3 or 4 with extra initiative for the latter, I am definitely using this for the Marine Raiders as they have three teams per squad as well. Agree CoC emphasizes the leadership already, and in Fighting on Guadalcanal leaders were clearly picked based on their performance and capabilities as opposed to arbitrarily.

One curious rule idea, not sure if applicable here:
When a Junior Leader uses two or more of their Command Initiatives, they may activate one Team that is not part of their squad. The weapon teams attached to the company appear to have worked very close with the squads.

Levi the Ox
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Re: Suggestions for US Marine special rules

Post by Levi the Ox » Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:56 pm

Will3T wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:04 pm
One curious rule idea, not sure if applicable here:
When a Junior Leader uses two or more of their Command Initiatives, they may activate one Team that is not part of their squad. The weapon teams attached to the company appear to have worked very close with the squads.
That's a cool idea! It's probably only going to affect uncommanded Support Teams, and isn't very efficient (which is a good thing), but will make activating those weapons teams much more reliable at key moments.

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Truscott Trotter
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Re: Suggestions for US Marine special rules

Post by Truscott Trotter » Wed Feb 26, 2020 7:18 pm

I am just wondering if it will get much use bit like the German special rule. Ie only when SL is around otherwise the loss of the section shooting is not worth it.

Will3T
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Re: Suggestions for US Marine special rules

Post by Will3T » Wed Feb 26, 2020 8:02 pm

Truscott Trotter wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 7:18 pm
I am just wondering if it will get much use bit like the German special rule. Ie only when SL is around otherwise the loss of the section shooting is not worth it.
Fair point, honestly not sure this rule is applicable to US Marines but maybe another force. Strategy with this would be use a 3 to activate the other Team and then a 2 to activate the section. Gives the player the opportunity to do a lot of shooting/moving but not take off shock and uses two dice.

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Truscott Trotter
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Re: Suggestions for US Marine special rules

Post by Truscott Trotter » Wed Feb 26, 2020 10:01 pm

Oh I see your point, yes it does use 2 dice, but lets you fire an MG team without a 1 or an SL.
I think that's a fair trade off.

Will3T
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Re: Suggestions for US Marine special rules

Post by Will3T » Wed Feb 26, 2020 11:53 pm

You got it!

Thinking about Marine leadership as one of their notable qualities I thought of these:

1. When a Leader uses all of their Initiatives to remove Shock from a unit, they may remove one additional point of Shock. In addition, when defending entrenchment in Close Combat all Marine units are considered Stubborn.

2. When a Leader is activated, you may use additional corresponding Command dice to add up to one additional Initiative to that activation. IE: if you roll two fours for command dice you can activate a SL and give them +1 imitative, so 4 actions.

This is just my musings though. I am set on the scouts rule, just looking for that extra piece!

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DougM
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Re: Suggestions for US Marine special rules

Post by DougM » Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:17 am

I'm getting slightly concerned that our USMC may be becoming supertroopers. Is the leadership really that much better, or the esprit de corps so superior to all our other forces?
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Will3T
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Re: Suggestions for US Marine special rules

Post by Will3T » Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:26 am

DougM wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:17 am
I'm getting slightly concerned that our USMC may be becoming supertroopers. Is the leadership really that much better, or the esprit de corps so superior to all our other forces?
Don’t want that for sure, I’m looking for that rare balance. I agree that most all fighting forces have a esprit de corps, just trying to figure out how that translates to the tabletop for the US Marines.

From what I have read the Marines fostered a very close knit group at all levels. To quote Gordon Rottman, “a Marine identified strongly with his company and his regiment was his tribe.” With that in mind it’d be nice to have some bonus for leaders, but of course at a cost that must be paid like most other National Characteristics.

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DougM
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Re: Suggestions for US Marine special rules

Post by DougM » Thu Feb 27, 2020 7:37 am

That statement about regiment being tribe could equally be made for any of the British Army regiments, especially the traditional county or area based ones. You not only had family tradition, local ties but in many cases 200-300 years of (usually winning) regimental history and tradition.

I just think you have to be careful in ascribing some unique martial attributes to one group without deeply examining your own assumptions, so for example, would the determination or regimental pride be greater than the Japanese Imperial Guard Division? Hitlerjugend? Coldstream Guards?

Was the USMC training programme tougher or longer than other equivalent formations? In terms of battlefield performance, was that flattered by the massive material advantages in fire-power, technology and air support they enjoyed post 1942? The USMC didn't have to deal with 88s or Tiger fear. How would (comparatively) they have fared compared to US divisions trying to take Monte Cassino or defend Bastogne?
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Levi the Ox
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Re: Suggestions for US Marine special rules

Post by Levi the Ox » Thu Feb 27, 2020 7:20 pm

Will3T wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:26 am
Don’t want that for sure, I’m looking for that rare balance. I agree that most all fighting forces have a esprit de corps, just trying to figure out how that translates to the tabletop for the US Marines.
There's some decent ideas in this thread, the important thing will be to pick a couple of them and try them out one at a time. Play the standard version first, so you have a reference point, and then in each subsequent game pick one of the alternatives to see if your gaming group prefers it instead. Ideally have a friend play the Marines and try some of the options out against you too, so that you know what it feels like to be on the receiving end of the rule. Abilities that let a unit do different things and that require effort and thought to use tend to be more interesting to play (and more fun to play against) than abilities that make a unit better at the things it already does.

Outside of the standard rules needed for a tournament scene, tabletop gaming is very much what you and your group want to make of it. Special force characteristics are a bit of flavor that you can add, subtract, or change to suit each game and campaign, as long as the people you play are on the same page.

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