Suggestions for US Marine special rules

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oozeboss
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Re: Suggestions for US Marine special rules

Post by oozeboss »

bcantwell wrote:For my Guadalcanal era USMC (D-1 TOE), I have them with the scout rule (which seems appropriate based on Marine operations on Guadalcanal) and have given them a Marksmanship rule that allows a junior leader to activate a unit to fire using 2 CI and that unit's riflemen (note, not the BAR, SMG, etc). are allowed to assign their hits to specific enemy teams rather than spread them out as normal. SO far it seems to be a pretty decent mechanism, giving them a firepower-based flavor rule without being gratuitously overpowered.


Outstanding idea.

I'll certainly be using that when my growing collection of 1942 SW Pacific platoons inevitably expands to include the Marines of Guadalcanal.

Berlichtingen
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Re: Suggestions for US Marine special rules

Post by Berlichtingen »

Teufelhunden wrote:I had planned on staying away from this one, as I'm obviously biased, but the very first thing that came to mind was something to do with marksmanship. There are plenty of anecdotes of Marines at the time not wanting the M1, believing the new fangled semi-auto firing weapon would be less accurate than their trusty Springfields.
I believe the official 1941-42 Marine Corps designation for the M1 Garand was Micky Mouse Rifle

Berlichtingen
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Re: Suggestions for US Marine special rules

Post by Berlichtingen »

Modern Marine doctrine is very much the product of the later WW2 campaigns. Squad structure is identical today to what it was on Okinawa, and tactics are almost unchanged. The tactics of the early early campaigns were the product of WW1 and the inter war bush fights. Marksmanship is a religion in the Corps, but I believe it was more so until after Tarawa. An indoctrination of always moving forward was also key to offensive tactics, but I believe that was more emphasized post Tarawa. Very close coordination of supporting arms was a feature of both periods, with particular emphasis on close air support... Marines used CAS at scary close ranges (on Guadelcanal, they used cloth panels to mark their forward positions, with pilots, often Army Air Cobras, attacking targets 50-100m in front). From my experience in the 80's, and I believe it was true in WW2, the Marines maintained a more personal relationship with their support elements... the folks out with the riflemen calling in support were from the supporting unit. Artillery FOs came from the artillery unit, FAC officers were pilots.. I think it was a huge benefit that the support units KNEW the people calling in that support... it breeds a level of care and trust.

Corktip100
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Re: Suggestions for US Marine special rules

Post by Corktip100 »

I think this kind of integration is what makes the Marines an interesting force to game with, whether WW2 or Cold War. I get the impression that the whole of the Marine war machine is focused on getting the rifleman onto his objective in a way not replicated anywhere else.

aktr
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Re: Suggestions for US Marine special rules

Post by aktr »

When people mentioned marksmanship my first thought was the Bren special rule – being able to target teams even if they are within 4” of each other. However seen as the Japanese lists don’t break the sections down into teams this seems a little unfair so I may go with 5 rounds rapid fire instead

Will3T
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Re: Suggestions for US Marine special rules

Post by Will3T »

Wanted to revive this thread as it is a topic I have been mulling over for some time. I considered co-optin the 5 Rounds Rapid rule but as a personal preference thing I don't want to just copy other National Characteristics. Regarding Marine firepower it is evident in their Squad layouts, with Support Lists that allow for extra BARs and many LMGs and HMGs. Any rules that allow the specific targeting of individual Teams is really unfair given the sole Japanese opponent does not have individual teams in their Sections. In addition, while the Japanese and US Marines both could deserve the Aggressive trait and other close combat National Characteristics, I have given these solely to the Japanese as they were much more interested in getting into a bayonet fight due to their doctrine.

Admittedly for me I am working along the lines of Marine Raiders so there is a bit different nuance, but for them these are the two National Characteristics I came up with for them:

Gung-Ho
All Marine Raider Senior Leaders have a 12” Command Range, and all Junior Leaders have a 9” Command Range.

Jungle Scouts
When a Junior Leader sends out their two-man Scout Team they may move with 1D6 or 2D6 and assume a Tactical stance at the end of their movement. If they are within line of sight of their Junior Leader they can be activated for one Command Initiative without being in Command Range. The Scout Team suffers no movement penalties due to difficult terrain.

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Truscott Trotter
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Re: Suggestions for US Marine special rules

Post by Truscott Trotter »

I like your thinking but given the close terrain in the jungle and shorter LOS is the second rule viable?

Perhaps give the scouts the ability to move on a 1 or 2?
Or maybe give them the free move if in LOS if the enemy?

Len Tracey
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Re: Suggestions for US Marine special rules

Post by Len Tracey »

G'day all,
For what its worth, here's the list we play with for Philippines invasion and early Guadalcanal:

Chain of Command Adaption [This is based on the D-series TO&E]
US Marine Platoon: 37 personnel
Ratings: Regular +3, Command Dice 5
PHQ (2): LT (SL) SMG, GSGT (SL) Rifle (bolt-action),
1 x BAR Squad (8): SGT (JL) SMG (part of BAR fire-team 1*),
1 x Fire-Team (4*): 1 x BAR, 2 x Riflemen (bolt-action)
1 x Fire-Team (4): 1 x BAR, 3 x Riflemen (bolt-action)
3 x Rifle Squads (9): SGT (JL) SMG,
1 x Fire-Team (4): 1 x BAR, 3 x Riflemen (bolt-action)
1 x Fire-Team (4): 1 x Rifle Grenadier, 3 x Riflemen (bolt-action)

NOTE: The squad SGT (JL) in the BAR Squad must always stay with the first BAR fire-team and may not leave it to join another team. [Historically, the Squad SGT also doubled as the fire-team leader for the first BAR fire-team.]

SPECIAL RULES:
Semper Fi: A Marine Platoon has the following characteristics: it is considered Aggressive Troops when attacking; Stubborn Troops when defending; and adds +2 DRM to its Force Morale roll.

We steered clear of marksmanship rules as we could find no evidence that their combat marksmanship was noticeably more effective than anyone else's.
Likewise, the US Marines had no more jungle experience or training than other troops, so special jungle rules didn't seem appropriate either.
Finally, this platoon organisation was designed to be fought by squads. So, even though its broken down into fire-teams, they really didn't use them.
Cheers

Will3T
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Re: Suggestions for US Marine special rules

Post by Will3T »

Truscott Trotter wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:25 pm
I like your thinking but given the close terrain in the jungle and shorter LOS is the second rule viable?

Perhaps give the scouts the ability to move on a 1 or 2?
Or maybe give them the free move if in LOS if the enemy?
Agreed the terrain and limited LOS is a factor, but I believe you can also activate a Scout Team on a 1 as it is a discrete infantry team at that time. I know the scouting part was a big piece of the Marine doctrine (let alone any armed force!), and AAR from Guadalcanal put more emphasis on the need for effective scouting.

The big difference is that they are not affected by the terrain which is a nice but small bonus.

Will3T
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Re: Suggestions for US Marine special rules

Post by Will3T »

Len Tracey wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 8:12 am
SPECIAL RULES:
Semper Fi: A Marine Platoon has the following characteristics: it is considered Aggressive Troops when attacking; Stubborn Troops when defending; and adds +2 DRM to its Force Morale roll.

We steered clear of marksmanship rules as we could find no evidence that their combat marksmanship was noticeably more effective than anyone else's.
Likewise, the US Marines had no more jungle experience or training than other troops, so special jungle rules didn't seem appropriate either.
Finally, this platoon organisation was designed to be fought by squads. So, even though its broken down into fire-teams, they really didn't use them.
Cheers
I like this a lot Len, thank you. I hesitate to give the Marines Aggressive as the Japanese already are so it is a wash, but the Stubborn on defense is appropriate. Totally agree about the marksmanship piece as well, it was a tenet but not sure how effective it was on the battlefield.

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