Passengers, transports and shock

Moderators: Laffe, Vis Bellica

Post Reply
User avatar
Seret
Posts: 4109
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2014 7:45 pm
Location: Kent UK
Contact:

Passengers, transports and shock

Post by Seret »

Just wondering what people thought about the application of shock on transports and passengers.

Let's say we've got a German recce team in a halftrack which gets hit by a PIAT. Good shot, the track backs up with 2 shock and 1d6 hits on passengers. Passengers roll for hits and take 2 more shock. I assume this is simply added to the shock on the vehicle, and since it's now at 4 shock everybody bails out.

The rules don't specifically say this is how it works but I assume so.

As a bit of a follow-on question: since the vehicle isn't knocked out, if the team rally sufficiently can they remount? I would say no, since vehicle crew bailing out don't normally get to remount either, so infantry should probably be treated the same. But if troops voluntarily dismount everybody manning a halftrack they can subsequently mount back up, so I can see why the question came up.

Archdukek
Posts: 5043
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:49 pm
Location: Linlithgow, West Lothian, UK

Re: Passengers, transports and shock

Post by Archdukek »

Interesting questions.
I would combine the shock on the passengers with the initial shock on the vehicle especially in the example you cite.To my mind that is what is meant in section 14.9 where it says:
"Sometimes, hits on carriers and transport vehicles will not destroy them, but may affect the morale of the men inside."
Otherwise you would have to argue that only the vehicle crew were affected by the initial PIAT hit.

As in the discussion about remanning tanks which were abandoned, I wouldn't allow them to remount within the time frame of a CoC game. In all likelihood they will be too busy anyway.

John

User avatar
Seret
Posts: 4109
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2014 7:45 pm
Location: Kent UK
Contact:

Re: Passengers, transports and shock

Post by Seret »

Archdukek wrote: Otherwise you would have to argue that only the vehicle crew were affected by the initial PIAT hit.
I think it's quite straightforward where the vehicle has a dedicated crew such as tanks or TDs. In the case of infantry transports the passengers are the crew.

Archdukek
Posts: 5043
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:49 pm
Location: Linlithgow, West Lothian, UK

Re: Passengers, transports and shock

Post by Archdukek »

Seret wrote:
Archdukek wrote: Otherwise you would have to argue that only the vehicle crew were affected by the initial PIAT hit.
In the case of infantry transports the passengers are the crew.
Exactly, which is why I don't think it makes any sense to say that part of the shock only applies to the vehicle and not to those being carried in it.

User avatar
Seret
Posts: 4109
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2014 7:45 pm
Location: Kent UK
Contact:

Re: Passengers, transports and shock

Post by Seret »

I'm inclined to agree. I think the net effect is that transports are somewhat more likely to have their crew bail out and hit the dirt than other vehicles. I'm ok with that, in my experience infantry are never that happy cooped up inside the "metal coffin" anyway.

Archdukek
Posts: 5043
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:49 pm
Location: Linlithgow, West Lothian, UK

Re: Passengers, transports and shock

Post by Archdukek »

Yes, what the rules are modelling is the effect on the passengers, not how many holes have been made in the armoured box!
John

User avatar
Truscott Trotter
Posts: 7584
Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:11 pm
Location: Tasmania the Southernmost CoC in the world

Re: Passengers, transports and shock

Post by Truscott Trotter »

So if you have no passengers you only get the 2 shock
and as you are counted as uncommanded and have a moral level of o1 they will bug out and leave the rest of the team stranded.
Sounds fair to em

hedgehobbit
Posts: 163
Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:49 pm

Re: Passengers, transports and shock

Post by hedgehobbit »

Are there any transport vehicles that have crews separate from the passengers? Also, if the vehicle shock for transports just transfers to the passengers, why don't soft-skin transports get shock as well?

Archdukek
Posts: 5043
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:49 pm
Location: Linlithgow, West Lothian, UK

Re: Passengers, transports and shock

Post by Archdukek »

Not sure I fully understand the question, the rules on the application of shock in 14.9 apply to both armoured and soft transport.
The difference is on the effect of fire on both types of vehicles. Soft skins are more likely to rapidly retreat out of the fire zone since it is no part of their job description to hang around when the bullets start flying.

Armoured transports on the other hand are expected to endure some fire but their efficiency is reduced by the application of shock. It gives them some potential to be directed elsewhere before tossing out their passengers.
Also it's much easier to explode soft skin transport.
Seems a reasonable reflection of their different roles to me.
John

hedgehobbit
Posts: 163
Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:49 pm

Re: Passengers, transports and shock

Post by hedgehobbit »

Sorry, I was talking about the hit charts. A die roll of 6 and zero net hits on a soft-skin vehicle results in "Any passengers must deploy now" whereas the same roll versus a armored half-track is "1 Shock, Any passengers must deploy now."

My question was why half-tracks get an extra point of shock compared to the same result for soft-skin vehicles. None of the results on the soft-skin table result in automatic shock whereas most of them on the half-track table do.

I suspect that the Shock given on the hit table doesn't travel with the passengers when they disembark (otherwise, you'd think they'd get Shock when the vehicle is knocked out as well).

Also, what to do about soft-skinned vehicles that aren't transport such as the LRDG jeeps and those AA-mounted German trucks.

Post Reply