Belt fed LMG and MMG

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remgain
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Belt fed LMG and MMG

Post by remgain »

Hi,

the difference in firepower between a belt fed LMG (8 dice) and a MMG (10 dice) is "only" 2 dice.
The MMG has a longer range.

IMHO this is maybe too low.
Due to the tripod, the sight, the servents, the ammo allowable, etcetc this difference should be higher.
Or the MMG should have some different benefits (more possibility to shock? to pin? in covering fire?)

Any thoughts?

Marco
Last edited by remgain on Wed Nov 05, 2014 10:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Truscott Trotter
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Re: Belt fed LMG and MMG

Post by Truscott Trotter »

possibility to choc?
In Italian this may mean something else but in Australian in means
Image

Have been to Italy several times and my Italian is limited to hello, goodbye and ordering food and drink

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remgain
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Re: Belt fed LMG and MMG

Post by remgain »

:^D :^D

Anyway, sounds tasteful!!
We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.

George Bernard Shaw

NTM
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Re: Belt fed LMG and MMG

Post by NTM »

A fair bit of play testing was done so I guess it's that way for a reason

I would suggest giving it a go with your amendments and then report back.

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Seret
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Re: Belt fed LMG and MMG

Post by Seret »

I do think SFMGs should be a lot better at covering fire than they are. Currently they have the same suppressive output as a rifle group. Since their mission is mostly about suppressing terrain features whether enemy have been spotted there or not that seems odd.

hedgehobbit
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Re: Belt fed LMG and MMG

Post by hedgehobbit »

In 1944, the US army produced an Umpire Manual for their own training exercises. In this manual is a chart showing the firepower values for the various infantry weapons the US were using at the time.

Image

It lines up with Chain of Command fairly closely. Now, I'm not saying it's 100% accurate but if the US army though a HMG (which is what they called the water cooled M1917) was as effective as 10 riflemen, then I'm willing to go with it.

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/ref ... 5-5.44.pdf

I do agree that the Covering Fire rules should take into account the firing unit's firepower.

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remgain
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Re: Belt fed LMG and MMG

Post by remgain »

Hedgehobbit,

thank you! Very interesting!

Now the question is: which kind of LMG is listed in that table?
Browning .30 with bipod? If yes it was belt fed, and so 6 "dice", and not 8, against 10 "dice" sounds good.
Then, how to rate magazine LMG?

Another idea could be that belt fed LMG rolls 6 dice with increased shock effect (double?), o maybe they could reroll any 1 due to the increased rate of fire?

MMG or SFMG could apply both these improvements.

Very interesting discussion!

Marco
We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.

George Bernard Shaw

Archdukek
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Re: Belt fed LMG and MMG

Post by Archdukek »

Seret wrote:I do think SFMGs should be a lot better at covering fire than they are. Currently they have the same suppressive output as a rifle group. Since their mission is mostly about suppressing terrain features whether enemy have been spotted there or not that seems odd.
Personally I think the suggestion made on another post that the area you can subject to covering fire should relate to the firepower a team can put out has a lot to be said for it.
1" per dice of firepower is easy to remember and apply. So 4" or 6" for a typical rifle team, 8" for a belt fed LMG and 10" for a tripod MG works for me. :)

John

hedgehobbit
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Re: Belt fed LMG and MMG

Post by hedgehobbit »

remgain wrote:Now the question is: which kind of LMG is listed in that table?
The US called the M1919 machine gun a LMG whereas the water cooled M1917 was referred to as a HMG. In most cases (the exception being parachute infantry), CoC treats the M1919 as a MMG rather than a belt-fed LMG.

Whether that should be the case is debatable.

siggian
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Re: Belt fed LMG and MMG

Post by siggian »

remgain wrote:Hi,

the difference in firepower between a belt fed LMG (8 dice) and a MMG (10 dice) is "only" 2 dice.
The MMG has a longer range.
Well, if my understanding of how you properly use an MMG is correct*, if on appears in CoC, things have seriously gone wrong for it. It's supposed to shoot at a much longer range as more of an area denial weapon (although enemy casualties are a welcome bonus). CoC has a much shorter range than what an MMG would normally operate at.

In CoC terms, it would probably operate much like a barrage but without the smoke. You'd likely have casualty checks on the first phase of fire but none on subsequent phases. The pin would remain as long as the MG is capable of firing and I'd use the same rules for artillery as for the MMG.

CoC has taken the less realistic but more practical choice of having them on board. It's a whole bunch more fun to be playing with something that you can move around.

* I'm going by what I have read. I have no training or experience.

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