Rules for buttoned/unbuttoned AFVs?

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Nick B
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Re: Rules for buttoned/unbuttoned AFVs?

Post by Nick B »

The -6 is for an open-topped tank turret (eg: Puma). A single hatch would be even smaller. One with a fella standing in it ready to bat unfriendly grenades away smaller still. I'd say it's not a valid target unless you climbed up on top of the tank to post it in, while punching the commander repeatedly in the face to keep him busy.
Sorry - that's incorrect. Page 40

"For a smaller aperture or more difficult target, such as an upper storey window, open topped vehicle or over a high obstacle, subtract 4 from the total.

For a very small appeture, such as an open tank turret or firing slit on a bunker, subtract6 from the total rolled"

As there are specific modifiers I cannot see that Rich did not intend for you to be able to do this? All down to personal preferance as to which rules/actions you allow or not I realise.

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Seret
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Re: Rules for buttoned/unbuttoned AFVs?

Post by Seret »

I read that as an open topped vehicle being a halftrack like a Hanomag or an M3 Nick. Open topped turret is a turret without a roof such as the Puma or Achilles. No mention of biffing things in individual hatches.

topi
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Re: Rules for buttoned/unbuttoned AFVs?

Post by topi »

Looking at the arsenal, I think open topped and open turret might refer to vehicle stats. So open turret does not mean a single hatch is open but the whole turret top is open. But the arsenal seems to be quite lacking in these stats, some state that vehicle is open top or open body, but not all. (We have always played this way, as tossing grenade throught open hatch while tank is moving is quite a feat..)

In general, I think the idea behind rule not allowing direct fire against tank commanders was to disallow unhistorical tactics - tank commanders did get hit, but chances of killing them with a team firing are probably way too high.

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Derek H
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Re: Rules for buttoned/unbuttoned AFVs?

Post by Derek H »

Seret wrote:Open topped turret is a turret without a roof such as the Puma or Achilles.
The Puma (Sdkfz 234/2) has a roof

Image

It's the 234/1 that doesn't
Image
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Seret
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Re: Rules for buttoned/unbuttoned AFVs?

Post by Seret »

Ah ok, was the name Puma only used for the 234/2 then? I thought it was used for the whole family.

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Derek H
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Re: Rules for buttoned/unbuttoned AFVs?

Post by Derek H »

That's certainly my understanding.
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Nick B
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Re: Rules for buttoned/unbuttoned AFVs?

Post by Nick B »

Hi Guys,

Yes - I agree - got that wrong - apologies. I've been looking over the rules over lunch. I think what confused me was the lack of a definition of terms coupled with the inconsistencies in the vehicle stats. So an Sdkfz222 appears to be the only "open turret" vehicle in the lists - and whilst the Sdkfz 251 is "open bodied" whilst the M5 and Bren Carrier aren't!

Could probably do with a definition of terms in the FAQ (for folk like me who are hard of thinking!) and a tidy up of vehicle stats when Rich does the amended pdfs.

Cheers

Nick

aphillathehun
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Re: Rules for buttoned/unbuttoned AFVs?

Post by aphillathehun »

The only thing I've come across that made me think some adjustment might be needed is what to do about someone who is manning an AAMG. Seems like making him only vulnerable to snipers gives him a level of immunity that's pretty steep.

hedgehobbit
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Re: Rules for buttoned/unbuttoned AFVs?

Post by hedgehobbit »

Nick B wrote:So an Sdkfz222 appears to be the only "open turret" vehicle in the lists - and whilst the Sdkfz 251 is "open bodied" whilst the M5 and Bren Carrier aren't!
There are no mentions of open topped vehicles in the US list either, even though quite a few of them are.

I think that screen on top of the 234/1 was meant to protect against thrown grenades. So I wouldn't treat that particular vehicle as open turret for grenades. The same goes for the other vehicles that share that turret like the 222 and the 250/9. You only needed to open it if you wished to use the MG against aircraft.

I don't mind gaming with that level of detail but I can see that others might not care. I'm willing to talk about rules for Nahverteidigungswaffe.

Also, the people inside the tank have grenades too. And they have a much easier time hitting you than you have hitting them.

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Re: Rules for buttoned/unbuttoned AFVs?

Post by topi »

In many pictures the person manning aamg is outside the tank completely. How easy is it to man the aamg in, say, sherman, while remaining inside the tank? Or is it doable at all?

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