SOME GENERIC SPECIAL RULES

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MLB
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Re: SOME GENERIC SPECIAL RULES

Post by MLB »

I think much also depends on the expected response to the loss of the LMG crew. The rules assume that the squad leader ensures the gun is always operated by someone. In a two team squad the junior leader can spend a CI to assign men from the rifle team, so it’s technically possible to keep the LMG team operating to the last man even in a two team squad.

Perhaps in a one team squad there’s a roll as siggian suggests to see if the LMG gunner is hit. If he is then the LMG is out of commission until the junior leader spends one CI to assign one man to pick it up and operate it (in other words a crew of two will take up all the junior leader’s CI for the phase). This could be considered each man’s sole action for the phase. It would basically be the same as the junior leader creating a new team, but instead of detaching them to do something else, they are re-assigned to the weapon. The LMG can’t be fired in the same phase that it’s picked up. In effect the LMG can be recovered but requires the junior leader and squad do little else for a phase other than recover the weapon and reorganise the squad.

However that does then raise the issue of a two team squad. If their LMG team is wiped out, why couldn’t the junior leader do the same with the rifle squad? Something to be said for KISS.
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Peter
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Re: SOME GENERIC SPECIAL RULES

Post by Peter »

There's a moving section in "Bugles and a Tiger" which describes a bren gunner being hit and rolling aside as they had been trained in order to allow the number two to take over. So no, a CI is not always required.
Peter

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Truscott Trotter
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Re: SOME GENERIC SPECIAL RULES

Post by Truscott Trotter »

Nother vote for KiSS.
Mag fed LMG 6 shots but 3 crew so +3 shots.
Not really a game breaker in my book.

Now if you had a single team 12 man squad with 2 belt fed LMG then ylu might need a tweak. :lol:

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Re: SOME GENERIC SPECIAL RULES

Post by Truscott Trotter »

OK if you really want to track LMG KO' how about this.

Everytime 3 or more 6's are rolled for saves on a unit there is a chance of a critical hit on an LMG.
Roll 1D6 on a 6 the LMG is knocked out for rest of game.
For HE hits of 50mm or larger any roll of 2 D6 on saves is a potential critical hit. Roll as above.

Levi the Ox
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Re: SOME GENERIC SPECIAL RULES

Post by Levi the Ox »

Honestly, I'd just run them as a separate rifle and LMG team. I already do so for Soviets.

Having everyone's squads follow the same rules keeps things much more straightforward: you don't have to worry about how running, entrenchments, mortars, tank overruns, casualties, etc. might interact weirdly with different unit compositions. In the majority of Chain of Command games I've played and seen everyone has kept both teams of a squad together the whole time whether they had the option of separating them or not, and even in armies listed as having single-team squads, the Junior Leader can always just form an LMG team from their squad with a CI *anyway*.

As for the Soviets specifically, their manuals *do* reference the LMG team operating independently of the rifles in various tactical evolutions, just as others do. They may not have been fully trained in their own doctrine in the early stages of the war, but the same can be said of many of the formations of *all* armies at various points, including the Germans, as wartime expansion stretched trained personnel. And it's good to resist the lasting German propaganda of the faceless Soviet hordes.

Maybe downgrade the Junior Leader to 1 CI so they can't fight both teams separately without help? That's how I'd represent less flexible training.
Truscott Trotter wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 2:32 am
OK if you really want to track LMG KO' how about this.

Everytime 3 or more 6's are rolled for saves on a unit there is a chance of a critical hit on an LMG.
Roll 1D6 on a 6 the LMG is knocked out for rest of game.
For HE hits of 50mm or larger any roll of 2 D6 on saves is a potential critical hit. Roll as above.
A good point. That's already true of HE fire against larger crew-served weapons (it's not even a successive roll, it just happens).

dakkadakka
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Re: SOME GENERIC SPECIAL RULES

Post by dakkadakka »

I don’t really see a need to bolt on any extra rules regarding LMG casualties in United Squads, as I believe their inherent inflexibility compared to Divided Squads helps to offset any perceived advantage as far as the LMG being the last figure removed. Sure - there are more bodies to absorb the incoming fire; but, you also have all the fire hitting one target in a US, as opposed to being split between the teams of a DS. Also, as the OP pointed out, if both teams are within 4”, men can be transferred to the LMG team, thus mimicking (although not as effectively) the ability of a US.

Regarding detaching scout teams, that rule seems to be perfectly reasonable to me as written. Your squad stops behind a hedge and there is a house nearby. You send a couple of redshirts (excuse the Star Trek parlance) over to the house to check it out. There’s no specific training needed. Now, if you want to add special recon units as support options, the rules you laid out sound like a great idea.

Like others in this thread, I am a big fan of K.I.S.S.! I appreciate your desire for detail (I’m an old SPI monster game retread myself). But, IMHO, Chain of Command feels more like a game than a full-on simulation; and, therefore doesn’t really need a lot of detail. Remember their mantra - “Play the period - not the rules!”

Best regards,

Jim

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