Shock on Armoured Vehicle

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JimLeCat
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Re: Shock on Armoured Vehicle

Post by JimLeCat »

The problem with -1 to hit for the HE dice is it is a *huge* reduction in the number of expected hits, way higher than any other penalty in the game. It reduces the expected number of hits by a third.

If you applied it per shock point, then firing HE would drop by a third on the first shock point, two thirds on the second and become totally ineffective on the third. Compared to which firing AP, which needs to be more accurate to be effective, only gets a -1/-2/-3 on 2D6.

If you apply it per 2 shock, then it suddenly drops by a third at 2 shock.

Thinking of other house rule mechanisms, how about requiring a roll of higher than shock on 1D6 to succeed in firing HE? That would mean in a given phase either the shell arrives at full effect or nothing happens (the order is misunderstood, the loader fumbles getting an HE shell, etc). Over a number of rolls that would reduce the total effect by one sixth per shock point, still steep but linear with shock.

Cheers,
Jim

Foreign Ginger
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Re: Shock on Armoured Vehicle

Post by Foreign Ginger »

I think Jim makes a really good point in terms of a -1 roll to hit per shock, it can be quite crippling to have the number of hits reduced by a third. Love the suggestion on perhaps rolling over the number of shock to fire as that presents players with an interesting decision to make, i.e. do I rally shock or risk not firing?

On the other hand, I presented the same argument to my colleague as TT did, if I may be so bold to use your fine quote sir: My rationalisation is thst shock in the crew represents factors such as concussion, smoke inhalation and or wounded crew members. I think I might have used very similar if not the same words when debating this with my colleague 8-)

Usually I'm very strict in playing CoC as RAW, especially as different gaming groups I belong to have their own little niches on CoC and it makes it impossible to remember them all, however this one has got me befuddled.

Tim

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Emilio
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Re: Shock on Armoured Vehicle

Post by Emilio »

An infantry gun crew firing HE against infantry, does suffer any penalty for shock? Apply the same for a tank gun crew, they are doing the same task.

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Truscott Trotter
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Re: Shock on Armoured Vehicle

Post by Truscott Trotter »

No as I mentioned no shock for infantry or AT guns firing HE either in the rules.

If you think -1 to hit is too strong then deduct dice from total eg 4 HE dice becomes 3 etc.

Remeber though as mentioned when a crew gets to 4 shock they bail our anyway.

Field guns are a bigger problem as they take shock like infantry. So an infantry gun thats lost 2/3 of its crew and is carrying shock as well still fires as per normal.

Perhaps -1 to hit per 2 shock for both AFV's and infantry /AT guns?

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Capt Fortier
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Re: Shock on Armoured Vehicle

Post by Capt Fortier »

I'm with Seret, TT and the OP on this - keep it simple and follow the RAW - and I think 14.8 is unambiguous: "A vehicle firing has a ‐1 on
the roll to hit for each point of Shock"
Capt Fortier

“Frapper l'ennemi, c'est bien. Frapper l'imagination, c'est mieux.” - Jean de Lattre de Tassigny

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Truscott Trotter
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Re: Shock on Armoured Vehicle

Post by Truscott Trotter »

True Capt but what about infantry guns?

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Capt Fortier
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Re: Shock on Armoured Vehicle

Post by Capt Fortier »

Truscott Trotter wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:13 am
True Capt but what about infantry guns?
To be honest, I thought that infantry guns subtracted one dice for each 2 points of shock - ie. I'd read 14.4 as applying to them in the same way it did an infantry unit (though I see from the discussion to date that is by no means the consensus).

I do think we have to be careful in not equating vehicles and other crewed weapons, notwithstanding there are times when they are doing the same thing (eg. firing H.E. at infantry). As Seret noted, a regular vehicle crew bails out when they hit 4 shock, but this isn't the same for a gun crew.

In reading 14.4 and 14.8 again, I am coming around to the view that a vehicle firing is impacted by shock in pretty much the same way as other units firing - ie. lose one dice for each two points of shock, except when firing at another vehicle when it subtracts 1 from the roll for each point of shock.
Capt Fortier

“Frapper l'ennemi, c'est bien. Frapper l'imagination, c'est mieux.” - Jean de Lattre de Tassigny

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