Halftracks and Passengers

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countsean
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Halftracks and Passengers

Post by countsean »

When you have a halftrack with passengers that activates can they also shoot with their rifles and LMGs inside? Also to dismount is that the same as a move order for them?

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Truscott Trotter
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Re: Halftracks and Passengers

Post by Truscott Trotter »

Nope passengers cant shoot from vehicles though there is an argument by some players to allow starionary passen6ders to shoot but that would req6iire several houserules.

Personally I don't think it is worth it as a stationary AFV is usually a dead one.

Dismount is similar to nomal .move I think it is in Ch 11 - don't hace my book handy.

Johnno
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Re: Halftracks and Passengers

Post by Johnno »

Halftracks don't come equipped with weapons or crew.
If I loaded up a squad ( say 10 Germans) say a turn before, could I leave the MG team (3) inside and dismount with the 6 riflemen?
Could the halftrack then still be able to move and shoot? If I left the JL inside as well, could he still bark orders at the 6 riflemen outside. Or is it more beneficial (handgranaten) to have JL with assaulting riflemen.
I'm imagining a half track rolling up to a building, the MG team laying down suppressing fire and the riflemen storming the place. In a cinematic sort of way. Assuming I had the proper dice and all that.

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Truscott Trotter
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Re: Halftracks and Passengers

Post by Truscott Trotter »

11.6.2 DISEMBARKING FROM VEHICLES
Vehicles disembarking troops may only move
with a maximum of 1D6 in that Phase. Vehicles
embarking troops may not move at all in that
Phase
Disembarking troops move as normal if the
vehicle is stationary, but may not move “at the
double.” Troops disembarking from a vehicle
which has moved in this Phase will move a
maximum of 1D6, and will count as moving
normally.

AND
11.3 UN‐COMMANDED VEHICLES
Where no Leader is present, for example when
the Leader commanding a tank has been killed or
the passengers in an armoured Personnel Carrier
have disembarked, the vehicle will operate on a
Command Dice roll of 1. However, only one crew
position may activate in a single Phase. So it can
drive or fire, but not both.


So you can disembark but if you take the JL out of the vehicle it can only shoot OR move.
I think it is best to leave the halftrack stationary to provide covering fire and use the JL with the disembarked infantry to fire.
In RL the infantry tended to disembark 2-300m from the known enemy - halftracks are rather vulnerable.

On a brighter note recent lists have the weapon included in the vehicle - for example the Sdkfz 251 as this was normally not removed.
As in Kursk PSC p 20
Sdkfz 251 with LMG and two crew

Johnno
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Re: Halftracks and Passengers

Post by Johnno »

Truscott Trotter wrote:
Mon Apr 20, 2020 3:30 am
So you can disembark but if you take the JL out of the vehicle it can only shoot OR move.
I think it is best to leave the halftrack stationary to provide covering fire and use the JL with the disembarked infantry to fire.
In RL the infantry tended to disembark 2-300m from the known enemy - halftracks are rather vulnerable.

On a brighter note recent lists have the weapon included in the vehicle - for example the Sdkfz 251 as this was normally not removed.
As in Kursk PSC p 20
Sdkfz 251 with LMG and two crew
Thank you! I shall have to check out that PSC!

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Truscott Trotter
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Re: Halftracks and Passengers

Post by Truscott Trotter »

Several.of us did nag Rich to include driver and gunner in the halftracks the same should apply to US M-3 - Uni/Brens are a slightly different case.

As no one would pay the cost of transport and a H/MMG team

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Re: Halftracks and Passengers

Post by Johnno »

Truscott Trotter wrote:
Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:31 pm
Several of us did nag Rich to include driver and gunner in the halftracks the same should apply to US M-3
It only makes sense, the vehicles would have a dedicated driver to say the least. Thanks again.

George2591
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Re: Halftracks and Passengers

Post by George2591 »

Armoured grenadiers' main job was to support tanks, I am not saying they would not dismount at times but they are advised around 1942 to fight from the vehicle, I believe this was also reiterated in '44. I have just looked through a photographic account of an attack on a Polish town in '44 by an armoured company and tanks, there is no sign these guys left their vehicles. I also don't see a problem with a rule which gives a negative for shooting on the move and if stopped shoot as normal from hard cover, obviously not everyone could. You don't see many halftracks in skirmish type games because the things are so expensive in points you have other/better choices, no matter which game you play. If you are behind hard cover why would you leave it to shoot if you didn't have to? Another point which came through in the album is that the attack was also supported by mortar carriers and half tracks with short 75's. A remarkable book.

This is also worth a look https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsTudthlCik

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Truscott Trotter
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Re: Halftracks and Passengers

Post by Truscott Trotter »

That not what my resesrch shows as every manual or account I have seen including a training film made in WW2 talks of them fighting dismounted.

The reason being when they tried it in 42 against the Russians they ran out of halftracks pretty fast as they were all burning.(Kharkov is a good example 1st and 2nd battles)

The one real life account I found of them fighting mounted (other than drive by attacks against disordred infantry) was 2nd SS in 43 trying to stop a Soviet tank breakthru - they lost almost all their halftracks though they did the job

The other issue is trying to hit anything further away than 5m from a moving halftrack cross country.

Then the final issue is you are then gonna have players wanting to have a truck race down the road with 20 men in blazing away.

https://books.google.com.au/books?id=iR ... ck&f=false

https://books.google.com.au/books?id=lq ... ck&f=false

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Truscott Trotter
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Re: Halftracks and Passengers

Post by Truscott Trotter »

These guys know more than me about it
https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=73903

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