Visibility into building

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Neil Todd
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Re: Visibility into building

Post by Neil Todd »

Truscott Trotter wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 10:02 pm
I do not think they are too vulnerable they already have the officers 1 in 6 chance to kill but the other bad effects don't worry them as they dont have CI to lose etc.

From what I have read FOO were a prime target and heough binoculars were fairly easy to pick out. Have book on US ones somewhere will try and dig it out
1-3 for a Foo to die but as you say put him near a squad to soak up hits and make it 50/50 between him and the JL being hit

siggian
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Re: Visibility into building

Post by siggian »

In real life, the FOO would not be anywhere near his own front-line troops and would also avoid obvious observation points where possible ("The Quiet Gunner At War" provides interesting information from an actual FOO). Their best defense was to not be observed. In CoC, you really can't do that with the way the rules work, so you have to do unhistorical things like place them next to troops so those figures can be meat shields.

The other problem is that mortar barrages can seriously muck up a game. I get the impression that the FOO rules are an attempt at mitigating their effect by giving the defender an active way of cancelling a barrage beyond using a CoC die. To a certain degree, they work, but I find them unsatisfactory because they force unhistorical behaviour.

If/When there is a CoC 2.0, the medium mortar rules should have a priority for a rethink.

gcoops
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Re: Visibility into building

Post by gcoops »

Mortars can muck up a game BUT the effect is not un-historical in the scale. Artillery was responsible for more battlefield casualties than any other weapon. Official stats by the British Army over the course of the whole war state that 75% of battle wounds were caused by shells, bombs and mortar rounds. Bullets and anti-tank shells accounted for 10%, the same figure for mines and booby traps. The remaining 5% were miscellaneous.

I guess it's getting a balance between a simulation, being historically accurate and a game.

siggian
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Re: Visibility into building

Post by siggian »

I'm not disagreeing that the effect is historical, it's just that the mechanics of it lead to unhistorical behaviour. I'm also not sure it was an absolute attack stopper, though that would be the most probable outcome. As I said, my hope is that the medium mortar rules would be revisited to make them work better within the game and make historical tactics using them more viable and likely.

JimLeCat
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Re: Visibility into building

Post by JimLeCat »

My problem with them is that the effects are too *small* on an area the size of a CoC table and much too well controlled. Given the danger area of a single 81mm mortar round, and the likely variation in the fall of rounds from multiple mortars in a battery, the beaten zone for a mortar barrage like that represented would be the entire table. As such, the only time you would get a barrage that close to friendly troops would be by mistake or as an act of desperation.

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Truscott Trotter
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Re: Visibility into building

Post by Truscott Trotter »

JimLeCat wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:32 pm
My problem with them is that the effects are too *small* on an area the size of a CoC table and much too well controlled. Given the danger area of a single 81mm mortar round, and the likely variation in the fall of rounds from multiple mortars in a battery, the beaten zone for a mortar barrage like that represented would be the entire table. As such, the only time you would get a barrage that close to friendly troops would be by mistake or as an act of desperation.
I agree.

FWIW I also have some first hand accounts of US FOO's being in front line and certainly shot at
However, at the end of a the day its a game, and apart from a PGB is you want the 'fun' of a mortar barrage you need to make appropriate rules

We are happy with our changes to the mortar rules - they have been play tested over 12 months now.

Everyone has different opinions about the effect of this or that and how it should play in the game.
We decided on several aspects of mortars that we wanted to represent then we scaled it down to fit in the game.

The idea was to give the flavour but keep some balance and realism as we saw it.
This I might add came after 4 years of everyone complaining about the current mortar rules - or like me refusing to use them.

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DougM
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Re: Visibility into building

Post by DougM »

Sorry, I missed your house rules for mortars.. did you post them here?
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Truscott Trotter
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Re: Visibility into building

Post by Truscott Trotter »

Will email you a copy Doug

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DougM
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Re: Visibility into building

Post by DougM »

Thanks mate.
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Tomm
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Re: Visibility into building

Post by Tomm »

siggian wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 4:56 pm
In real life, the FOO would not be anywhere near his own front-line troops and would also avoid obvious observation points where possible ("The Quiet Gunner At War" provides interesting information from an actual FOO). Their best defense was to not be observed. In CoC, you really can't do that with the way the rules work, so you have to do unhistorical things like place them next to troops so those figures can be meat shields.
You could houserule that FOO could only be targeted by a sniper or by a SL using all his CI to point a squad in the right direction, unless the FOO is the closest infantry target. It'd make snipers more valuable too.

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