Le CoC Indochine

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Thomas Nissvik
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Le CoC Indochine

Post by Thomas Nissvik » Tue May 06, 2014 12:09 pm

It is time to get this show on the road. I am starting this thread to have a place to put information relevant to an adaptation of CoC for the French Indo-China War 1946-1954.
I envision this as a free collaborative effort so no need to bother about rights, just source and attribution, both to give credit and to enable further research.

I will kick this off with the bare bones minimum. The VM platoon after 1953 will consist of:

Platoon HQ
1 Commander, Senior Leader with Pistol
1 Deputy Commander, Senior Leader with SMG

Assault Sections 1 and 2
1 Junior Leader with SMG
5 SMG men
6 Rifle Men

Support Section
1 Junior Leader with SMG
2 LMG Men
2 SMG Men
2 Riflemen

This is a guesstimate based on the info on http://indochine54.free.fr/vm/toe-infba ... le_platoon, the excellent site by Danny O'Hara and Nowfel Leulliot. Anyone who has hard info on the structure of the platoon, please correct me.



A French Paratroop Platoon for the same time will consist of:

Platoon HQ
1 Senior Leader with SMG Lt
1 Senior Leader with SMG NCO

Sections 1 to 3
1 Junior Leader with SMG
1 LMG with 3 crew
3 SMG men
3 Riflemen

This is a guesstimate based on the info on http://dienbienphuredstarminiatures.blo ... mpany.html


So, folks, the ball is rolling. Correct me on the above, provide your own lists for other units or just start playing around with it so that we can give the platoons ratings and start thinking about Support lists.

Cheers/Thomas the Penguin

cassegw
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Re: Le CoC Indochine

Post by cassegw » Tue May 06, 2014 10:45 pm

Your drafts look good to me.

Excellent timing with the 60th anniversary of Dien Bien Phu - 7th May

No idea if all can access but there was a good BBC World service documentary on DBP at the weekend - IPLAYER LINK http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01y0sc7

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Arlequín
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Re: Le CoC Indochine

Post by Arlequín » Wed May 07, 2014 7:43 am

The O'Hara/Leulliot site is very well-researched, so short of there being something official from Vietnamese sources, which is likely to happen never, I'd go with their suggestion.

As for the Paras, I understood (from a source that I can't recall right now) that by 1954 they had gone over to a two section organisation, but with more men per section (2 x 15 men, less losses). Platoons were also now as likely to be led just by sergent-chefs and adjudants as they were by subalterns, due to a shortage of officers in general. If I re-find that source I'll pass it on.

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Arlequín
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Re: Le CoC Indochine

Post by Arlequín » Wed May 07, 2014 8:18 am

Found it. Page 53 has the info on the two-squad platoons, but the whole document is worth reading.

http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/arm ... ackson.pdf

:)

Thomas Nissvik
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Re: Le CoC Indochine

Post by Thomas Nissvik » Thu May 08, 2014 7:49 am

Right, it's paying off already!
I am reading Arlequins source and in the first chapter, it talks about "A French View of Counterinsurgency" by Roger Trinquier.
Thanks to those splendid chaps the US Military, this book is available as a PDF.
http://armyrotc.missouri.edu/pdfs-docs/ ... arfare.pdf
It is next on my reading list.

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Arlequín
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Re: Le CoC Indochine

Post by Arlequín » Thu May 08, 2014 5:46 pm

Collaboration usually pays off... thanks for the link, much appreciated! :)

Thomas Nissvik
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Re: Le CoC Indochine

Post by Thomas Nissvik » Fri May 09, 2014 10:26 am

Oh, and this one is om my reading list as well:
http://airborneassociation.com/e/media/ ... rsion1.pdf

English translation of Langlais book Dien Bien Phu.

Axabrax
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Re: Le CoC Indochine

Post by Axabrax » Fri May 09, 2014 6:21 pm

I think maybe it would be cool to have some dedicated scenarios for this theater. Very interested in the aspects of trench warfare. I wonder if you can borrow some concepts from Through the Mud and the Blood here? I suppose I'm trying to think of some ways to make COC for this conflict more distinctive than just World War II with a different "skin." Just having the lists, however, will be enough to spur me into buying all of the Redstar figures ;)

Thomas Nissvik
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Re: Le CoC Indochine

Post by Thomas Nissvik » Mon May 12, 2014 7:58 am

I have been thinking about this for a long time. My first plan was to run larger actions using IABSM and smaller DBP actions using M&B. I'll have to re-read M&B to see what parts of trench warfare might be transferable to CoC, but since the troops at DBP made straight comparisons to Verdun, there has to be some similarities.

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Arlequín
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Re: Le CoC Indochine

Post by Arlequín » Mon May 12, 2014 11:07 am

It is difficult to make any conflict of around the mid 20th Century completely distinct from WWII, as that conflict itself was so varied in how it was fought, depending on the time and the place. In a sense this is a good thing, as otherwise you would struggle to adapt CoC to other conflicts.

However, just as the SCW was different to the opening phases of WWII, which itself was different to its end, so is Indochina different to the 'Pacific' or the 'Far East'... I'm sure these differences will become apparent as we progress through this. For now working on the similarities should be fine.
:)

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