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Stuka Shock

Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:40 pm
by Truscott Trotter
Morning Chaps
Some questions and observations, feedback welcome of course

We recently played a Blitzkrieg game with the Stukas.

Now my opponent did roll exceptionally badly I have to admit but it was not till e actually reread the rules we realised it was 1D6 of shock per TEAM not per squad.

So of course my oppo rolled high enough to more than pin his deploying troops - whereupon I provided enough fire on one phase to break both sections and rout them off table with their leaders.

The luck continued on the BTH losing 8 FM points and the game. This mission was the crucial one in the campaign - the last and so ended quickly and not much fun for either side.

So questions:
1.) Can you roll to see how many shock and decide not to deploy - or deploy in a different place (ie out of LOS?), or do you deploy first THEN roll for shock?
2.) The vehicle effect seems to carry forwards after the Stuck effect has ended(after first turn) , we played the Infantry effect after the attack ended as no die roll needed but still rolled for shock - is this correct? I can see it being read two ways.

Any allied troops wishing to deploy onto the table
in the first Turn must roll to see if they arrive as
though under a Pre-Game Bombardment. If they
do arrive, each Team will also roll 1D6 to see how
much Shock the Stuka bombardment has caused


Observations:
I realise the die rolling was high but it could easily happen as although my opponent rolled 5,6's a 3,4+ is often all that is needed for a -2 on FM on the BTH table.

Options:
1.) Reduce the shock roll to 1 D3 - ie 1,2=1, 3,4=2, 5,6=3 shock?

2.) Rather than reduce the shock roll allow troops to roll the shock before they deploy so they can alter their deployment position?

thoughts?
TIA
TT

Re: Stuka Shock

Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 1:59 am
by c0cky30
No real need for the suggested changes as the defender does not need to deploy until the end of turn when the effect is over and has the choice to take AA as a support option to reduce the effect.

Re: Stuka Shock

Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 2:52 am
by Truscott Trotter
Yes I think AA will be on the French shopping lists from now on!

Re: Stuka Shock

Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:40 am
by Contrarius
It does seem a bit daft to have to the same dice result whether you’re rolling for an 18-man Polish infantry section or a three-man mortar team. I suppose you can elect not to risk bringing on the mortar until the first turn ends, but that’s hardly satisfactory.

Some house rules may be in order. Perhaps a D4 for team of <6 men; D3 for <4 men? And conversely, for squads >10 men use a D8 or a D10? A bit fiddly perhaps, but not if you have the funky dice already.

Re: Stuka Shock

Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:19 am
by Truscott Trotter
D3 1-4 Men per team
D6 5-8 men
2D6 9+ men

Re: Stuka Shock

Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:40 am
by MLB
c0cky30 wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 1:59 am
No real need for the suggested changes as the defender does not need to deploy until the end of turn when the effect is over and has the choice to take AA as a support option to reduce the effect.
That’s not how it works. Stuka bombardment happens first for effect on buildings that is prior to the patrol phase. Effect on any infantry wanting to deploy during turn one, is roll to see if they come through the barrage, if they succeed then deploy them and roll again for shock.

Re: Stuka Shock

Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:06 pm
by Neil Todd
I think c0cky30 knows how it works MLB, he is suggesting to not deploy your troops until the second turn, which can be quite early sometimes. I have seen the German player roll 3 x sixes on his first set of dice a couple of times. However I have also seen games when the turn never ends. So while it is a consideration a lot will depend game momentum and how long you want to risk not deploying with troops closing in on your JOP's.
The AA suggestion is also a very good one but is wasted points if the German player elects not to take the Stuka's.

Re: Stuka Shock

Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:50 pm
by Contrarius
AA MGs seem the more cost-effective punt at only one point, whereas AA arty costs two. Getting that —1 off the shock seems to help reduce the pain of a Stuka attack.

Would be nice if you could represent the AA unit on the table, perhaps for 1 additional point of cost? That way you still get some use out of them if no Stukas turn up. Early war most AA assets are still pretty vulnerable as most had no gun shields so they’re relatively easy to take down.

(Only saying this because I’ve got a nice classic Bofors AA model I’d like to use on the table!)

Re: Stuka Shock

Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:49 pm
by BaronVonWreckedoften
In modelling terms, why not put the AA MG team onto a larger base and have it as a special deployment point marker to indicate when they are being used?

Re: Stuka Shock

Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:04 pm
by Levi the Ox
The shock is quite brutal, and in conjunction with the pre-game barrage effect can make it very difficult to get anything done. Theoretically, the in-game counter-tactic would be to start deploying early in the rear, so that you could rally the shock off before moving up to fire. In practice I'm skeptical.

Frankly, the building damage and prolonged vehicle disruption already feel worth the extra support points over a pre-game barrage, and I'm inclined to drop the shock entirely. I'm here to fight a battle with miniatures, not play a "will they or won't they?" guessing game with off-table support choices that counter each other and can be so pivotal.