Head Quarters Riflemen

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Archdukek
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Re: Head Quarters Riflemen

Post by Archdukek » Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:05 pm

According to the FAQ page 6, you are limited to 2 or 3 unless you pay for an unlimited supply at a cost of 1 support point per rifle grenadier. I think the Blitzkreig Supplement changed the base number to 4 but I don’t have it to hand.

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l'audace
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Re: Head Quarters Riflemen

Post by l'audace » Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:15 pm

For simplicity maybe use them like the French VB team without a junior leader.

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Truscott Trotter
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Re: Head Quarters Riflemen

Post by Truscott Trotter » Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:48 am

4 in Blitzkreig alright but half ROF on first shot.
Can buy unlimited ammo at a cost per man

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john de terre neuve
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Re: Head Quarters Riflemen

Post by john de terre neuve » Sat Jan 18, 2020 6:21 pm

Image
Here is the AR: https://fuentesdeonoro.blogspot.com/202 ... redux.html for the game from where the question arose. I will certainly make better use of the rifle grenadier team next time!

By the way, we used TT's amendments for double phases and snipers, and we quite liked them. As most will probably know, I rely greatly on RAW, but I believe CoC could do with a bit of an update. Many games have been played by a very large community of gamers. I just do not think that v2 in in the cards, so I think I will start to accept player derived ammendments.

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gebhk
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Re: Head Quarters Riflemen

Post by gebhk » Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:25 pm

And I'd also include the messengers and the teamsters and the horses and carts, but that's just me :)
With you there, all the way :o

It all depends on how much detail you want to bring to the game.

Based on analogies to earlier German organisations and other armies, the 'messengers' were a lot more than that. They were in effect the 'command staff' of the platoon CO and provided services such as observation, signalling and logistical support (aka fetching the officer's dinner) and had some specialised equipment to carry these out. To quote OldNick, The game puts all HQ men below the abstraction layer and, therefore, you would need to create house rules if you want to recreate the full flavour of the daily living of the platoon HQ in action. A platoon leader deprived of his team would be less aware of the environment, less able to communicate with his subordinates and superiors and less able to respond to new orders. He would also have to take time out to wash his underpants or go to fetch his lunch (or take someone out of the platoon to do this for him). All easily catered for and great fun if that is the sort of game you like, but entirely unnecessary if all you want to do is to get stuck into a short sharp one-off action that most wargames represent. The only possible friction I feel is that while they would not be involved in direct combat under normal circumstances, the messengers would clearly have to get stuck in like any other riflemen, if the platoon HQ was attacked directly by the enemy.

It is a similar case with the horse-drawn transport. The sturm zug, with its high proportion of automatic weapons had a prodigious expenditure of ammunition, hence the inclusion of organic transport that was usually held at company level in most armies. While the wagon would not have been deployed near enough to be visible on most wargames tables, the If's would have been in constant pendulum motion between the wagon and as near the front line as possible where they would proceed under horse power and then, if necessary, pulled by two men each closer yet. Again not necessary for the short sharp engagement wargame, but a real headache for every platoon commander in real life. Every action required an ammo resupply plan and 'please God, let it work' was certainly up there in the platoon commanders top 5 prayers. Again, easily catered for with house special rules for limited ammo availability, if you have that sort of bent.

For what it's worth, we played a game where after the first move of firing, each soldier was diced for every attempt to fire. On a 1D10 they were out of ammo, with the chances increasing with every move and 'green' soldiers and/or those equipped with automatic weapons being more prone than rifle-armed regular/veteran specimens, for obvious reasons. Once 'out of ammo' the soldier could not fire until he re-supplied. It turned out to be a very educational game but not one for everyone, I'd wager.....

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DougM
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Re: Head Quarters Riflemen

Post by DougM » Tue Jan 21, 2020 6:46 pm

The level of accounting to deal with individual figures ammo supply strikes me as a bit of a headache. I would be more inclined to abstract it, for example, if the number of 1's in a phase of fire for the team is more than double the number of sixes, the team is running low on ammo. Each team fires with 1 less dice the first phase ammo runs short, -2 dice the next and so on. I would assume men would be tossing each other magazines amid imprecations to 'make every shot count'.

The question would be, is it a level of complexity you want in every game. or only certain scenarios, I would prefer the latter.
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Truscott Trotter
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Re: Head Quarters Riflemen

Post by Truscott Trotter » Tue Jan 21, 2020 8:12 pm

Running ammo trucks to the frontline in daylight and under fire was one reason I didn't get into the PSC Blitzkrieg rules.

gebhk
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Re: Head Quarters Riflemen

Post by gebhk » Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:27 pm

DougM wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 6:46 pm
The level of accounting to deal with individual figures ammo supply strikes me as a bit of a headache. (-)
Delightful understatement. Though slightly less complicated than I first imagined. Basically after each section fired, we tossed a handful of dice, one for each trooper plus an extra one for each green and SAW armed soldier in the squad (that's quite a lot of dice for a Polish squad!). Each 1 that came up, a soldier went to the sin bin. Then each 1 or 2, etc The BAR was the last to fall silent, on the theory that riflemen would give up their ammo to keep that going. Resupply was by sending a man back to the nearest platoon ammo dump or sending the ammo cart forward.

A variation on the theme is the one called 'the platoon sergeant's lament'. In addition to worrying about ammo expenditure, you had to worry about getting SAW ammo loaded, getting the troops fed and watered, getting the wounded collected and sent to the rear, maintaining communication with neighbours, keeping soldiers moved by a healthy instinct for self-preservation motivated and keeping a lid on the more insane decisions of the young and overenthusiastic platoon CO. Oh, and trying to ensure that your actions on the one hand got you enough respect to do your job effectively and on the other didn't earn you so much 'respect' that you merited an 'accidental' bullet to the back of the dome.
DougM wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 6:46 pm
The question would be, is it a level of complexity you want in every game. or only certain scenarios, I would prefer the latter.

Frankly, once was quite enough. However well worth trying at least once - gives a game an altogether different, pedestrian feel.

Of course in real life ammo expenditure was monitored by someone at each level from individual level upwards rather than by one wargamer, which made it less onerous. Also, expenditure of preset percentages was reported up the chain of command (say half, 3/4 etc) rather than an all or nothing simplification.

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Levi the Ox
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Re: Head Quarters Riflemen

Post by Levi the Ox » Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:37 pm

I like the thoughts of special rules for ammo resupply and casualty recovery for the occasional scenario, I play in 15mm so end up with a lot of extra figures available for logistical conversions.

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Truscott Trotter
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Re: Head Quarters Riflemen

Post by Truscott Trotter » Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:52 pm

I think those things would be good in a particular scenario/ mission rather than in general play.
Eg can you refuel/rearm ypur Char B's before the Germans reach you and blow up your supply trucks?

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