Head Quarters Riflemen

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john de terre neuve
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Head Quarters Riflemen

Post by john de terre neuve » Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:03 am

Hi,

Playing a game tonight with the Germans with a Sturm Platoon. They have a SL with 3 riflemen descibed as a HQ unit. Do the 3 riflemen deploy with the SL or by themselves as a team. If they deploy with the SL are they regarded as a small team.

Thanks,

John

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7dot62mm
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Re: Head Quarters Riflemen

Post by 7dot62mm » Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:58 am

I don't know which real-life organization the list is based on. If you look here: http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn131v1nov44.htm at the "b) 1. (Sturm) Zug" you'll see that the organization there is:

Platoon senior leader
3 messengers (ignored in CoC)
3 men with carbine and grenade attachment (often ignored in CoC)
Medical orderly (usually made a separate support option in CoC)
2 teamsters (ignored in CoC)

I would treat the rifle grenadiers as a separate team and allow them to deploy with the SL if desired. But then again I'd also give the medical orderly as an integral part of the platoon and not something you'd have to use support points for. And I'd also include the messengers and the teamsters and the horses and carts, but that's just me :)

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Seret
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Re: Head Quarters Riflemen

Post by Seret » Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:59 am

Those are your rifle grenadiers. They're a team and deploy on a 1.

BaronVonWreckedoften
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Re: Head Quarters Riflemen

Post by BaronVonWreckedoften » Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:28 am

7dot62mm wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:58 am
Platoon senior leader
3 messengers (ignored in CoC)
3 men with carbine and grenade attachment (often ignored in CoC)
Medical orderly (usually made a separate support option in CoC)
2 teamsters (ignored in CoC)
Presumably, all except the teamsters (I wonder if they had a union?) were "front line" men and hence would have a combat role; as such, one should, as you rightly say, include them in your tabletop platoon. However, how closely should they be restricted to their proper function - eg should the three "messengers" only be used as runners, or should they be considered as extra firepower? The absence of the rifle (or in this case carbine) grenadiers is a bit harder to ignore - how were they used tactically: purely as HE against infantry, or also anti-armour?
No plan survives first contact with the dice.

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7dot62mm
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Re: Head Quarters Riflemen

Post by 7dot62mm » Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:27 am

BaronVonWreckedoften wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:28 am
Presumably, all except the teamsters (I wonder if they had a union?) were "front line" men and hence would have a combat role; as such, one should, as you rightly say, include them in your tabletop platoon. However, how closely should they be restricted to their proper function - eg should the three "messengers" only be used as runners, or should they be considered as extra firepower? The absence of the rifle (or in this case carbine) grenadiers is a bit harder to ignore - how were they used tactically: purely as HE against infantry, or also anti-armour?
They didn't have a union, illegal in Nazi Germany I think :lol:

By 1944 the rifle grenadiers had all sorts of grenades available to them (1.9 million rifle grenades produced in 1943 alone...) so they were used for both anti-personnel and anti-tank/vehicle/emplacement work.

Archdukek
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Re: Head Quarters Riflemen

Post by Archdukek » Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:36 am

Baron,
Messengers/runners are abstracted into the Command Dice system so don’t need to appear on table.
The rifle grenadiers aren’t ignored, they function as a team as Seret says or can be allocated out to the squads.
Other squads in other lists can make use of rifle grenades when commanded by the JL if historically they did so, they just don’t appear separately on the lists unless they were capable of being deployed as independent teams as here or in the French and Japanese lists.

John

OldNick
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Re: Head Quarters Riflemen

Post by OldNick » Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:42 am

The game puts all HQ men below the abstraction layer, except where they have a direct primary combat role. In this case this only applies to the rifle grenadiers.

I quite often base leaders (J&S) on multi-figure sabot bases, with extra models - so usually a JL +1, and an SL+2 - representing the command initiative of the leader. If a point of CI is lost a figure is taken off he sabot base.

These extra figures can do nothing else, but they help leaders to stand out, and provide a nod in the direction of the extra men from the command teams.

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john de terre neuve
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Re: Head Quarters Riflemen

Post by john de terre neuve » Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:23 pm

Thanks, I believe for game purposes they act as a team as described by most of you. I believe most of you are saying they do not deploy with the SL but only deploy on a 1.

John

Munin
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Re: Head Quarters Riflemen

Post by Munin » Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:28 pm

I would deploy them on a 1, yes.

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john de terre neuve
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Re: Head Quarters Riflemen

Post by john de terre neuve » Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:35 pm

thanks again, one follow up question. In the faq it states that the number of rifles grenades availabe for the whole game is dependent on the ci of the leader. since this is an independent team how many rifle grenades are available to the 3 man team.

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