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Re: Qns about close combat from deployment and in woods.

Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 7:23 pm
by Truscott Trotter
My reading is grenades were used frequently in jungles apparently the troops involved did not find trees a problem.
Jungle edges or bamboo might be more if a problem.
Biggest issue in jungle is visability due to canopy cover.

Re: Qns about close combat from deployment and in woods.

Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:37 am
by Truscott Trotter
Australian war correspondent Osmar White noticed a ‘corporal pleading for two more
Mills grenades and one tin less bully beef. “All the chaps feel the way I do sir,” he
said earnestly’.

The Development of Australian Army Jungle Warfare Doctrine and Training, 1941-1945
Adrian Threlfall

the JAPANESE infantryman in an attack is generally armed with a rifle or a grenade discharger or a light machine gun and as many hand grenades as' he can carry, usually two fastened on to,his belt.
Japanese Army in the Burma Campaign 1943 prep by US Observer group India

What happened next was one of the most savage battles of the Kokoda campaign, fought out on what has now become known as Brigade Hill and on nearby Mission Ridge. The expected attack began just before dawn on 8 September when the Japanese attacked the 2/27th Battalion. The battalion replied with what their war diary described as the “liberal use” of hand grenades.35 The fighting continued all morning and on into the next day. In two days of fighting this battalion alone had fired 100 rounds of ammunition per man and had thrown 1200 grenades.36
35 2/27th Battalion war diary, 8 September 1942, September 1942, AWM, AWM52, item 8/3/27.

Earlier that morning, another 112th patrol, this time from Troop C, under Lieutenant Smith, was resting at a waterfall about 1,800 meters south of Afua, when the men spotted an eleven-man Japanese patrol marching up the river straight toward them. Smith also set a hasty ambush and waited until the first six Japanese were within three meters of him before firing. He personally killed two Japanese with point-blank rifle fire, two more Japanese died in the explosion of a white phosphorus grenade, and two others were wounded.

Japanese soldiers defending the shallow depression heaved several hand grenades from above onto the advancing Americans. One grenade landed between the lieutenant and his men. Boyce threw himself on the grenade and smothered the blast with his own body. * That heroic action ended the 112th’s attack for the day.
Drea, Edward J., 1944-Defending the Driniumor: covering force operations in New Guinea, 1944 / by Edward J. Drea. Fort
Leavenworth, Kan. : Combat Studies Institute,

Thick undergrowth hampered the advance of Lieutenants Parry's and Donohue's platoons on the left flank and gave the Japanese ideal cover .
Privates Dever,° Hilton ? and Williams $ of Parry's platoon, using bakelite grenades and then their bayonets, captured two Japanese guns and
destroyed their crews

As another signal line had been cut, the company could not ask battalion headquarters for mortar fire, and the tanks were protected by trees from the anti-tank guns ; but they were spiritedly attacked with hand grenades and bullets from the cover of trees and logs in the course of a running fight

although reports like these may be responsible for the myth that grenades couldn't be thrown in the Jungle:
it is possible that the 169th was a badly shaken regiment before the [Japanese] attack began … when the Americans thought there were Japanese within their bivouacs, there was a great deal of confusion, shooting, and stabbing. Some men knifed each other. Men threw grenades blindly in the dark. Some of the grenades hit trees, bounced back, and exploded among the Americans. Some soldiers fired round after round to little avail. In the morning no trace remained of Japanese dead or wounded but there were American casualties; some had been stabbed to death, some wounded by knives. Many suffered grenade fragment wounds, and 50 percent of these were caused by fragments from American grenades.
Foundations of Victory; The Pacific War 1943-1944: The Chief of Army’s History
Conference 2003

Re: Qns about close combat from deployment and in woods.

Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:30 pm
by Seret
DougM wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:52 am
I reckon I need clarification on this one, as I am about to start playing some Malaya games. What are the restrictions on grenade use in the Jungle?
There's no restriction in the rules.

TT's trying to make the point that people did throw them around in "the jungle", but the word jungle covers a lot of different types of terrain. Yes, you can sometimes be "in the jungle" and safely throw a grenade, because there aren't always trees in the way. Forests in Europe tend to have quite tall straight trees with little undergrowth, and if you try to throw a grenade around in them there's a very good chance it'll hit a tree and bounce off somewhere else. Worst case it comes right back at you.

If you want to represent something in the game, maybe say that if you're in trees and roll a double on your throw then the grenade scatters randomly d6 inches?

Re: Qns about close combat from deployment and in woods.

Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:33 pm
by Truscott Trotter
I was thinking about rule mods for this , it apprars that in the jungle ay least they were used at closer range in heavy terrain. Someimes throen down a slope othsrtimes rolled.
I would expect something similar in the woods.
Maybe a minus on the dice roll or even 1D6 instead of 2?