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Re: Qns about close combat from deployment and in woods.

Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:38 pm
by Morgan
BaronVonWreckedoften wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:58 am
Truscott Trotter wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 3:08 am
3.) Yes and Yes no restrictions for MW in woods
Not quite clear about this answer - are you saying that I could simply have shot at him? There is a conundrum here in that you have to be within 4" of somebody in wood in order to see them, but that automatically forces you to engage them in close combat. This precludes the springing of an ambush, surely (see below)?
For what it's worth, if both units are in the wood, the visibility range is 12" - it's the bullet point at the top of the second page of chapter 8.
"If both the firing Unit and the target are within a terrain feature that blocks line of sight, such as a wood, then they may only engage the enemy when they are within 12” of each other. In light orchards with little or no undergrowth this extends to 18”."

However, the situation could still arise where visibility is indeed limited to 4". eg: one unit right on the edge of a wood in the open and another unit deploys 4" away inside the wood. In those circumstances, it's straight into Close Combat with no possibility to use something like Maschinengewehr. I'd still allow all the defensive bonuses, though: cover, LMGs, etc.

Re: Qns about close combat from deployment and in woods.

Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:50 pm
by Seret
BaronVonWreckedoften wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:17 am
1) Can you deploy and engage immediately in close combat?
2) Being within 4" of him, was I obliged to engage in close combat, since we were in woods where you have to be within 4" to see the enemy?
3) Could I not have simply shot at him instead, and if so, could I have used "maschinengewehre" in the woods?
You can deploy into close combat but as Morgan correctly points out you can see 12" inside woods, so you've potentially got the option of shooting him too.
4) Without finding anything specific in the rules, were we right to ban the use of "handgranaten" because we were in woods?
There's nothing in the rules but IMO there probably should be. Using grenades in woods is dangerous and troops are taught not to. So I think you were doing the right thing and "playing the period not the rules" here.
5) In the MDF sets, are the patrol markers really the larger discs and the JOPs the smaller ones? (I always thought it was the other way around.)
Whichever you prefer, it makes no difference. You can use anything you like for JOPs and patrol markers. You just always measure from the centre, so it doesn't matter what size and shape they are.

Re: Qns about close combat from deployment and in woods.

Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:25 pm
by BaronVonWreckedoften
Thanks to everyone who has replied - all of the answers provided clarity (each on their own way!).

I would just add that I was relying on my opponent "rule checking" (he had the only available set, on his tablet and it was getting a bit crowded around the screen as his cat was also "playing the period" and being obstructive). Just to be clear, if I had deployed at 4" + a little bit, I could have shot at him - using "maschinengewehre" - but he (and I) would have counted the woods as soft cover, yes?

Re: Qns about close combat from deployment and in woods.

Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:46 pm
by Peter
Yes

Re: Qns about close combat from deployment and in woods.

Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 6:22 pm
by Archdukek
You could also have deployed one squad at 4+”, shot at him with Machinegewehr, then deployed the other 2 squads straight into Close Combat.

John

Re: Qns about close combat from deployment and in woods.

Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:47 pm
by Truscott Trotter
Troops in jungle use grenades a lot wht not in woods?

Re: Qns about close combat from deployment and in woods.

Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:47 pm
by Truscott Trotter
OK on more detail

Yes you can shoot instead if you deploy outside 4"
If you do shoot yes you can use MW .

Visability into woods where one team is outside is that the team in the woods is visible if IT is within 4" (it can see out unrestructed if within 4" of edge)

Visability if both teams IN woods is 12"

Rules as written no you can not use handgranaten if you deploy straight into combat. FWIW you could spend CI and throw grenades then close combat or as John said use one section to fire and throw grenades and the other 2 to CA.

Re: Qns about close combat from deployment and in woods.

Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:48 pm
by BaronVonWreckedoften
Thanks all - I think we played it fairly accurately, other than missing the 12" visibility if both sides are in the woods.

Re: Qns about close combat from deployment and in woods.

Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:45 am
by Seret
Truscott Trotter wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:47 pm
Troops in jungle use grenades a lot wht not in woods?
If it's jungle with trees then throwing grenades is dangerous for the same reason. They bounce off the trees and go all over the place.

Don't be these muppets: https://youtu.be/bYNOB0TjTRY

Re: Qns about close combat from deployment and in woods.

Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:52 am
by DougM
I reckon I need clarification on this one, as I am about to start playing some Malaya games. What are the restrictions on grenade use in the Jungle?