Multi Targeting

Moderators: Laffe, Vis Bellica

TommyThor
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:08 pm

Multi Targeting

Post by TommyThor »

Been doing some re-reading and interpretation of some rules and one "issue" caught my eye, the interaction between rule "8.3 TARGET DEFINED" and the last paragraph of rule 4.4. "All members of the Section or Team must do the same thing when activated together. (See Section 4.5.6, Unit Actions Defined.)".

The "issue" arises from the FAQ´s 1 documente, which regarding "4.5.2 Unit Activations", states in its 1st Q/A:
Q: If you activate a squad with a Command Dice roll of 2 and give a move or shoot order, must all the squad move in the same direction, and must they shoot at the same target?
A: They must do the same thing. So if they move, both Teams will go in the same direction towards the same objective. If they fire, they must both fire at the same target. However, if a section or squad were placed so that only some men could fire at a target, the other men within the section could move with 1D6 so as to reposition and then fire at half effect. That would still count as all of the section doing the same thing as the men are only moving in order to be able to bring their weapons to bear.

The "issue" is that under 8.3 Target Defined, it clearly states that the same firing unit CAN select different targets by any number of men (" A firing Unit may elect to fire at any target or multiple targets which it can see. Different targets may be selected by any number of men within the firing Unit at the discretion of the controlling player."), which to me seems like accepting that shooting, independently of shooting at 1 or multiple targets, constitutes a single, cohesive action, hence they are all considered doing the same action, independently of being activated on a 1 (a Team) 2 (Squad) or a 3 (by a Junior Leader). This means that having a different multiple targets within the same firing unit is different from moving teams in different directions with the same "global" activation on a 2.

On a side note a doubt also crept in regarding the fact that all members of a section or team must do the same thing when activating together based also on a different Q/A (Movement and seeing the result on the dice as the obligatory distance the units MUST move, not just the max they could move) the on the FAC´s1 Doc. IF, for instance, we were to activate a squad on 2, but only needed to effectively move one of the teams because the other team was already on the "target" spot they are moving towards does this still mean that the team already in place had to move (and where)? It wouldn't make sense for them to being forced to move when they are in the spot that is the common goal of both teams in the squad, especially when the same Q/A states that the exception to the dice result being the mandatory distance the elements MUST move is the existence of a clearly defined goal or place, such as a Corner of a house, or behind hedge X.

Would welcome your opinions guys.
Last edited by TommyThor on Fri Nov 29, 2019 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
DougM
Posts: 540
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2014 7:22 am

Re: Multi Targeting

Post by DougM »

I would treat each separate target as requiring a Command Initiative.
---------------------------------------------
https://aleadodyssey.blogspot.com/
---------------------------------------------

User avatar
Greg Bradfield
Posts: 138
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:09 am

Re: Multi Targeting

Post by Greg Bradfield »

I would agree with DougM a seperate CI then.

TommyThor
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:08 pm

Re: Multi Targeting

Post by TommyThor »

So you just ignore rule 8.3 and the possibility it clearly gives to a firing unit?

siggian
Posts: 903
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2013 3:22 am
Location: Abbotsford, British Columbia, Canada
Contact:

Re: Multi Targeting

Post by siggian »

I apply 8.3 in a granular way: basically any man in the shooting unit can shoot at any man in the target unit that they can see (but for speed and simplicity, I just roll all the dice at once). If you want to target two different units separated by more than 4", that's two CIs.

It's definitely an area that could be cleaned up in COC 2.0.

User avatar
Truscott Trotter
Posts: 7783
Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:11 pm
Location: Tasmania the Southernmost CoC in the world

Re: Multi Targeting

Post by Truscott Trotter »

TommyThor wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 4:36 pm
So you just ignore rule 8.3 and the possibility it clearly gives to a firing unit?
No on this case I would ignore the FAQ on both counts.

TommyThor
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:08 pm

Re: Multi Targeting

Post by TommyThor »

Truscott Trotter wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 8:11 pm
TommyThor wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 4:36 pm
So you just ignore rule 8.3 and the possibility it clearly gives to a firing unit?
No on this case I would ignore the FAQ on both counts.
So in your opinion a firing squad activated with a 2 can still fire at multiple target teams applying the principle that different men inside the firing units can fire at different targets?

User avatar
Truscott Trotter
Posts: 7783
Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:11 pm
Location: Tasmania the Southernmost CoC in the world

Re: Multi Targeting

Post by Truscott Trotter »

I would play it RAW.
The exame on p 17 in green box covers what happens if some men cannot fire - they don't.
If you want some men a team or section to move position to fire then we count all that team or section to count as moving and firing at half effect..

Ruch plays both rules contrary to RAW so has obviously had second thoughts on how it should be played.

However this should be an errata and he has to change the rules to make all members of a team shoot at same target in all circumstances to make the rule change consistent.

andyskinner
Posts: 130
Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:45 pm
Location: Massachusetts, USA

Re: Multi Targeting

Post by andyskinner »

As to your side note, you can pick a spot (before you roll) that could be designated, like:
* go to the fence
* get to the woods
I think that would include:
* join the rest of the squad
You can stop at that spot, even if it it closer than what you rolled.

You can't pick a spot in an open area that has no way a leader would be able to designate it, so you can't bail out of a move that would leave you in the open if you don't make it into cover.

I thought it was in the rules, but can't find it. But in the FAQ:
Q: When you roll for movement, is that the maximum that may be moved, or is it the distance which
MUST be moved?
A: In broad terms it is both. Yes, it is the maximum you can move, but it will also normally be how far
you must move. The exception to that would be if you wanted to move to a specific recognisable point,
such as a hedge or the crest of the hill. In those situations you can stop at that point. But if you are
moving across open ground then that is how far you must go.
I was wondering whether this would be a good rule for What a Tanker!, but it isn't there. Turns out not spelled out in rules here, either.

andy
I cheer for Nick.

B. Wren
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:25 pm

Re: Multi Targeting

Post by B. Wren »

We play this one by ear and going off the general look of things but it would be good to have some clarity

Post Reply