Tachanka?

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gebhk
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Re: Tachanka?

Post by gebhk » Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:31 am

So in all I do not think they are suitable for CoC sized engagements however we all want our toys so lets make rules for em I say!
I agree (albeit there might perhaps be a use if a MG team needs to be moved quickly from A to B and there is suitable cover). The desirability of having tachanka's acting as horsed assault weapons in a Soviet army stems from their legendary status, akin in Soviet mythology to the role of the English longbow in British (after all no one, I suspect, is asking for a similar set of rules for the German If5, ironically a vehicle far better suited to this role). However, as always, when you introduce mythological beasts into what is attempting to be a realistic ruleset, you will have problems - as you have quite correctly noted earlier.
The shooting part is easy but how to make them vulnerable to return fire without making them completely useless is harder.
I agree - the shooting part is easy. Your chances of hitting anything smaller than the side of a barn, while stationary and at useful combat ranges, are statistically insignificant. The chances of hitting a barn are probably one in three. If the tachanka is moving at speed, the chances decrease accordingly. The vulnerability issue is also, despite appearances, easy. Either you stick to realistic rules and the thing is reduced to dogmeat and matchwood in short order (there is a reason why chariots went out of fashion long even before machine guns and QF artillery appeared on the scene). Or you equip tachanka units with, in effect, magical properties.

Personally, I like both, so please don't take this as a criticism of anything, rather just an attempt to clarify the issues.

My comments regarding motorbikes and trucks merely relate to the tachanka's vaunted ability to support charging cavalry. I would suggest that regardless of terrain unless it is as even and vacant as a football pitch, when going flat out, the single horseman, like the motorcyclist, is going to outpace the much bigger and more complex contraption. Of course the more cluttered the terrain, the greater the advantage of the single horseman or motorcycle over its bigger cousin. As you say, the tachanka evolved in wide open spaces but also, it needs to be remembered, for warfare in which artillery was either rare or non-existent and even machine gun support was scarce. Even so, I would hazard a guess that the MGs would be deployed from aboard the tachanka only in dire extremity and if the enemy obliged by attacking with cold steel - something that occurred surprisingly frequently both during the RCW and the Polish-Soviet war (so much so that in some Polish cavalry regiments there was a return to wearing makeshift chain mail aventails!).

Talking of film references, you can find quite a lot of footage of the real thing in Soviet propaganda films of the invasion of Poland in September '39.
Last edited by gebhk on Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

Neil Todd
Posts: 136
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:59 pm

Re: Tachanka?

Post by Neil Todd » Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:08 am

TT, don't the rules as is cover them sufficiently?

Soft skin transport Vehicle or soft skin fighting vehicle. Either mounted with a Vehicle MG. Being wheeled it can move the turn it comes on but any more than 1d6 is going to limit its shooting.

I still have one from Eureka to put together.

Cheers Neil

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Truscott Trotter
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Re: Tachanka?

Post by Truscott Trotter » Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:43 am

Apart from the engine erm horses! 😀
Kill a horse in a team of 4 harnessed together and the whole thing stops or crashes till you cut it loose.

The debate on shooting is whether or not to alow it to move and shoot at all.

Currently vehicles shoot MG at full ROF when moving 1D6 and 1/2 ROF at 2D6.

Am thinking 1/2 ROF at 1 D6 representing a quick burst while stationary then moving off at a walk to trot?

Then there is the dismounting the MG thing. Must specify when and how what happens to the tachanka etc etc.

Give me another 5 min and I am sure I could think of a few more adpects the current rules don't cover 😉

Neil Todd
Posts: 136
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:59 pm

Re: Tachanka?

Post by Neil Todd » Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:52 am

I would be happy to leave it as is with ROF. Its unlikely to get many turns of firing once it is exposed, just think of the extra dice as the surprise it caused.
The 5-6 damage on the two net hits represents the horses panicking and running through nearby infantry etc.

Tomm
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Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:58 pm

Re: Tachanka?

Post by Tomm » Sat Oct 19, 2019 11:01 am

Also whether a 3d6 (doubled on roads) Tachanka can keep up with cavalry off roads, which they historically did. Or with a 1930s sports car on road which I'm pretty sure they didn't!

gebhk
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Re: Tachanka?

Post by gebhk » Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:02 pm

Tachanka can keep up with cavalry off roads, which they historically did
Again, with the proviso that this applies to normal movement rates in open and even terrain. At full speed (such as when charging) not so much. Also not so much in terrain that is anything less than as open and even as a billiard table. Woodland cuttings, bridges and narrow lanes in eastern Poland presented challenges to the much narrower Polish taczanki. In effect, the MG platoons on taczanki, not infrequently, had to be detached from the main body and sent by a roundabout route.
Kill a horse in a team of 4 harnessed together and the whole thing stops or crashes till you cut it loose
Beautifully illustrated in one of the film clips that you attached, TT!
Then there is the dismounting the MG thing. Must specify when and how what happens to the tachanka etc etc
.
On the Polish job the gun was disconnected from the taczanka by yanking one leaver. Theerafter, it would not have taken any longer to bring the gun into action than if it had been transported on a truck or some such. Needless to say, this manoeuvre was trained ad nauseam and under parade-ground conditions usually took just over 30 seconds (and rarely more than 40) to complete. Laskowski notes that under battlefield conditions, a well-trained crew could be relied upon to open aimed and accurate fire between 40-45 seconds from the time the order to dismount was given. While the level of efficiency varied much within the Soviet army, I would think it reasonable to assume that the better Soviet units could achieve similar benchmarks.

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