Off Table Machine Guns

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Archdukek
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Re: Off Table Machine Guns

Post by Archdukek »

I don't think the extension to a Stuka Attack is valid. While it is described as a variant of a Pre-game Barrage the effects are quite different and there are different rules for buildings vehicles and infantry. Only infantry attempting to move onto to the table in the first turn suffer the risk of shock which wouldn't apply to an off table MMG.

John

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Truscott Trotter
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Re: Off Table Machine Guns

Post by Truscott Trotter »

I thought it applied to gun teams too?
Must look it up.

So if you are using normal PGB you would role to see if you can activate ypur off table MMG if it attempts to fire in the first turn?

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Truscott Trotter
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Re: Off Table Machine Guns

Post by Truscott Trotter »

Stukas versus Infantry
Any allied troops wishing to deploy onto the table
in the first Turn must roll to see if they arrive as
though under a Pre-Game Bombardment


It does say infantry in the title but then uses the generic troops - logically the shock should apply to everything not in a fully enclosed AFV IMHO
I also think there should be some allowance for shock on vehicles - at least 1 pt YMMV

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Seret
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Re: Off Table Machine Guns

Post by Seret »

calumma wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 2:12 pm
presumably not that far away so should still be affected by the barrage?
I wouldn't assume it's anywhere near the infantry it's supporting, no. Supporting fire from MGs ideally is be delivered from high ground overlooking the infantry's forming up point and axis of attack, but could be several hundred metres away. The guns can't be too close to the infantry, or they won't be able to shoot over them.

Archdukek
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Re: Off Table Machine Guns

Post by Archdukek »

Truscott Trotter wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:27 pm
Stukas versus Infantry
Any allied troops wishing to deploy onto the table
in the first Turn must roll to see if they arrive as
though under a Pre-Game Bombardment


It does say infantry in the title but then uses the generic troops - logically the shock should apply to everything not in a fully enclosed AFV IMHO
I also think there should be some allowance for shock on vehicles - at least 1 pt YMMV
Given that the previous paragraph headed "Stuka versus Vehicles" provides the rules for them I'm not sure why you would conflate the two.
If you mean that the rules on "Stuka versus Infantry" should apply to weapons teams, then I agree. They are "infantry" and would be covered by that paragraph.

However, my point is that it refers to "allied troops wishing to deploy onto the table" which an off table MMG team never does. So that paragraph and the risk of Shock does not apply.

John

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Truscott Trotter
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Re: Off Table Machine Guns

Post by Truscott Trotter »

Yes I am saying it should apply to support teams like gun teams also softskins etc.

As a different point entirely it came to me when reading the rules and comparing to the reaction of British tank crews (admittedly these were in Greece) that the chance of some shock not just being delayed might be appropriate .

As for the original question of off table MMG teams if you consider them 1-200m away then I think they might well be subject to shock from the bombing. If on the other hand you think they are more likely to be 800-1000 m then no they would not.

If you are playing strict RAW then I agree as they are not attempting to move onto the table they are immune to the stuka attack rule. But in reality moving or not has no effect on how close or devastating the 500lb bomb is.

batesmotel34
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Re: Off Table Machine Guns

Post by batesmotel34 »

Note that some light mortars with longer ranges, e.g. US 60mm mortars, are allowed to fire from off table in the basic rules (secton 9.4) so the fact that the pre-game barrage isn't listed as affecting them might be an oversight or an indication that other off table assets shouldn't be affected?

Chris

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Truscott Trotter
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Re: Off Table Machine Guns

Post by Truscott Trotter »

Interesting point Chris tbo the range on the 60mm mortar is a fair bit longer than the effective range on the MMG.

Neil Todd
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Re: Off Table Machine Guns

Post by Neil Todd »

TT, I think you will find the effective range on an MG34 and a M2 mortar are very similar. The big difference is one needs LOS the other doesn't. On the other hand the British certainly practiced indirect drills with their MMG's I am not sure if other countries did though.

Cheers Neil

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