Over watch and panzerfausts

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Morgan
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Re: Over watch and panzerfausts

Post by Morgan »

Ah, I see what you are saying but I don't come to the same conclusion. How would that square with 4.5.3? If a man within the Squad on Overwatch has the panzerfaust ready to fire when the Overwatch is triggered (while his mates have their rifles ready), why can he *not* do that when ordered by his JL during the normal course of events? In that circumstance, the Overwatch status is somehow preventing him from using the very weapon which is in his hands and ready to use.

I suspect we might go round in circles on this one.
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Captain W Martin
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Re: Over watch and panzerfausts

Post by Captain W Martin »

I think Morgan is refering to the addtional CI required to use the Squad / Team AT weapon whilst on overwatch?

Whereas is split off to form a disting team Id treat it like any other AT weapon PIAT etc.

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Seret
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Re: Over watch and panzerfausts

Post by Seret »

Morgan wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:17 am
How would that square with 4.5.3?
I don't see a problem. Yes, you normally need a leader to spend a CI to fire a panzerfaust, but as TT has said, you've already banked a CI when you put them on overwatch. That's essentially what overwatch is, you burn an activation now in order to use it later.

Bottom line though: what would you be trying to achieve by not allowing panzerfausts to fire on overwatch? Would it make the game better, or more realistic? I think it would be the opposite. If a group of men have been put in a position and told to shoot the next thing that comes around the corner, and that thing happens to be a tank instead of infantry I think it would be weird for them to hold their fire if they've got an anti-tank weapon.

Morgan
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Re: Over watch and panzerfausts

Post by Morgan »

I'm not really trying to achieve one thing or another. My "inspiration", if you will, was section 4.5.3 which says that a Leader can't order a panzerfaust to fire when the Rifle Team that is carrying it is on Overwatch. By that, I take it to mean that the Rifle Team has their rifles in hand and that the panzerfaust is not ready to be used (nor are grenades, by the same rule). If the panzerfaust that one of them is also carrying can fire via the Overwatch mechanism itself, that rule in 4.5.3 seems rather unnecessary.

Edit to add: Sometimes the rules-as-written can do with a bit of a polish so maybe that 4.5.3 should be applied in only certain circumstances. Perhaps the same Rifle Team should be also allowed to throw a grenade when Overwatch is triggered.
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Truscott Trotter
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Re: Over watch and panzerfausts

Post by Truscott Trotter »

I dont beleive that is what sect 4.5.3 says.

I read it as it you need to spend a CI to fire unless you are on overwatch when you do not need to spend the CI as its already banked.

Also I see no reason why a PF cannot fire at a tank while the rest of the section fires at some infantry.

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Seret
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Re: Over watch and panzerfausts

Post by Seret »

Morgan wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:32 am
My "inspiration", if you will, was section 4.5.3 which says that a Leader can't order a panzerfaust to fire when the Rifle Team that is carrying it is on Overwatch.
What I take away from that is that if you do fire it you're no longer on overwatch ie: you have to come off overwatch to throw a grenade or fire a panzerfaust. You've been activated to do something by a leader, so you're now not on overwatch.

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Truscott Trotter
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Re: Over watch and panzerfausts

Post by Truscott Trotter »

Actually if you look at the definitions of 4.5.3 it is about commands that are NOT activation's
So what it is saying is you can throw a grenade or fire a section AT weapon for one CI and not count as activating the team.
Nothing at all about that being unable to fire on overwatch without spending additional CI

Captain W Martin
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Re: Over watch and panzerfausts

Post by Captain W Martin »

Surely thats 2 for 1 on the CI cost then? I have spent 1 CI for overwatch and as a result also basically get a bonus 1 with the use of the PzFaust?

Normally in play it would be 1 CI to fire the squad with an additional 1 CI for a command that is not an ativiation to use the PzFaust, using overwatch in this fashion is giving you double bubble on 1 CI?

The squad are not undertaking the same activity or firing at the same target, so for me it needs another CI.

Looking at playing the game in a sensible and fair fashion, probaly I say the 1 CI on overwatch has to nominate whats going on overwatch either the PzFaust or the Squad but not both?

I still think the way it should really be done is 1 CI to create a AT team, 1 CI to then put that AT team on overwatch?

Its not hugely clear, but the 2 for the price of 1 CI seems a bit unfair.

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Seret
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Re: Over watch and panzerfausts

Post by Seret »

Captain W Martin wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:05 pm
Surely thats 2 for 1 on the CI cost then?
Yep, but again, it feels a bit weird not to allow them to use the right weapon for the target that presents itself.

I don't think it's really unfair. It's a pretty niche case, it's not going to come up much.

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Re: Over watch and panzerfausts

Post by GavinP »

If it were a rifle team on overwatch, would you allow the rifles to fire subsequently at an infantry target or does firing the faust burn the entire teams overwatch?

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