Over watch and panzerfausts

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Rowan10
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Over watch and panzerfausts

Post by Rowan10 » Tue Oct 08, 2019 6:53 am

Question, A JL or SL can place a section on overwatch for 1 ci. What if that section has inherent panzerfausts within that list, example panzer grenadiers. Can the JL/SL assign a soldier to man a panzerfaust, while his buddies use their rifles?
A is it possible to place a man on overwatch with the section panzerfaust?
B Would it cost a ci to allocate said individual?
Not sure, what does the hive mind think?

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Truscott Trotter
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Re: Over watch and panzerfausts

Post by Truscott Trotter » Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:12 am

Put a team on overwatch if a tank appears and the team can use a panzerfaust fire away!

There is no provision to put a single man on overwatch.

There are 2 ways around this:
1.) Seperate a man more than 4" away from the rest team but still within 6" of.JL and put him on overwatch as a new team. Bit cumbersome.
2.) Use a panzerfaust team

Morgan
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Re: Over watch and panzerfausts

Post by Morgan » Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:00 am

I'm not sure that I'd allow it, simple based on game mechanics, but I could be convinced otherwise.

To use a panzerfaust in the normal course of events, requires a 3 or a 4 on the dice (because it requires use of a CI by a JL or SL) at the critical moment. Something doesn't quite sit well with me to have a team that can lurk around a corner on "panzerfaust overwatch" who then get to auto-fire as soon as a tank appears because the player managed to roll a 3 or a 4 in a previous phase.

Maybe I'm influenced by having played against them. I feel it was hard enough to push tanks forwards anyway (crossing fingers and hoping my opponent doesn't get the dice they need in the next phase) without knowing that, if I roll around that corner I am *absolutely definitely* going to get shot at by an anti-tank weapon.
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Truscott Trotter
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Re: Over watch and panzerfausts

Post by Truscott Trotter » Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:04 am

Same deal as having a team on overwatch except the single man is very easy to kill and cause a roll on the BTH table 😉

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Truscott Trotter
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Re: Over watch and panzerfausts

Post by Truscott Trotter » Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:09 am

Also IIRC the Germans in 1945 used lots of one man panzerfaust teams with limited success...it takes big cojones to take a tank on on your own with a panzerfaust.

Morgan
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Re: Over watch and panzerfausts

Post by Morgan » Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:33 am

Not quite the same deal, I think. There are specific rules on how a section anti-tank weapon is used (ie: by order of a leader at the critical moment) that, to my mind, are intended to limit the ease with which they are triggered. Allowing them to be put on Overwatch seems to dilute that in a way that I'm not so keen on.

I think the "single man" thing is a bit of a distraction. The panzerfaust man doesn't have to be a 1-man team; you could quite legitimately have a 6-man rifle team there, or an entire squad, with the panzerfaust embedded and available to be used by any man that is still standing at the point you wish to use it.
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Truscott Trotter
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Re: Over watch and panzerfausts

Post by Truscott Trotter » Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:39 am

You are reading someting into the rules that is not there.
Any team can be put on overwatch just like any team can use interrupt even one with an panzerfaust....then there is the ambush rule again any team including those with panzerfausts.

Captain W Martin
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Re: Over watch and panzerfausts

Post by Captain W Martin » Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:54 am

^^

Put a dedicated AT weapon on overwatch and it can fire no probs...not so sure about a Pzfaust as part of a squad as that required a CI to fire as is a action but not an activation, so its the same as wanting to use a grenade on overwatch so not possible as I understand it in the rules?

A way round this could be to create a team and desigante them as having the Pzfaust then they could be treatred as any other AT team and put on overwatch...its noy wholly in the rules but represents the JL spending the time and effort CI to arrange this perhaps.

However, deployment does NOT trigger overwatch, so if the tank deploys but neither shoots nor moves as I understand it you cant trigger the overwatch?

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Re: Over watch and panzerfausts

Post by Morgan » Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:57 am

Section 4.5.3 (edited by me for relevant content) says: "An activated Leader ... may, therefore, use one Command Initiative to instruct troops to do the following:
- Get a Unit which is not Tactical or on Overwatch to throw a single hand-grenade, fire a single rifle grenade or use a single Section or Squad anti-tank weapon. See Section 9.2, Grenades and 9.3, Infantry Anti-Tank Weapons"
[NOTE: "which is not on Overwatch ..."]

If we look at section 9.3.2 (and at the FAQ for this section), it says: "Other than when used against vehicles, Section anti-tank weapons may only be used when an individual man is commanded by a Leader using a Command Initiative (see Section 4.5.3, Commands Which are Not Activations). For a non-vehicle target this must be a Senior Leader."

The FAQ then clarifies this and talks of a "Panzerfaust Team" which could be activated on a 1. This, I assume, is your one/two man Team which has been broken off from the Squad and sent off on their own. On reflection, I would certainly allow them to be put on Overwatch, much as a PIAT Team or a Panzerschreck Team could be.

But look again at Rowan's initial question. This is talking about a full Squad being put on Overwatch and having the embedded panzerfaust fire. That is specifically disallowed by the wording under 4.5.3.

(Oh, and a slight clarification for Rowan - the Squad can be put on Overwatch for 1CI per Team. So, typically, it will take 2CIs for a German Squad comprising two Teams).
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Truscott Trotter
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Re: Over watch and panzerfausts

Post by Truscott Trotter » Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:09 am

Again I think you are misreading it I read it as if you have a team with a section at weapon on overwatch you do not need to spend a CI just like you do not need to spend a CI to fire a team on overwatch - you have already spent the CI when you put them on overwatch.

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