Close Combat 4 x dice to enemy player

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Truscott Trotter
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Re: Close Combat 4 x dice to enemy player

Post by Truscott Trotter » Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:08 am

Yup so calculate your dice before you launch the attack and leave some men out to reduce it below 4x? :lol: :twisted:

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Re: Close Combat 4 x dice to enemy player

Post by Truscott Trotter » Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:12 am

Truscott Trotter wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:44 pm
No it is no 'the tank thing' it is Table 16 line 12 - "Support unit routs"

So to spell it out.
I have a core section it faces 4x the enemy dice in CA and it routs - if it does not break due to shock it does NOT roll on BTH
I have a support section it faces 4x the enemy dice in CA and it routs - if it does not break due to shock it DOES roll on BTH

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Re: Close Combat 4 x dice to enemy player

Post by Munin » Wed Sep 18, 2019 1:39 am

I am on travel and don't have my book with me, so forgive the question: is there an entry for "support unit breaks" as well as one for "support unit routs?" Is all this argument perhaps over a typo? Or from the lack of an implied "... from the table" clause in the entry on table 16?

We already know that CoC is not super tight in its use of terminology (c.f. "unit"), but the description of what happens to a unit with 4x dice in CC is pretty clear, and that unless its movement takes it off the table, it remains in play. Contrast this with all of the mentions of "routing" in relation to Turn end and we see that these are only invoked when the unit in question (usually a leader) is _removed_ from the table.

Poor use of terminology aside, why would you assume that a rule about things leaving the table causing a morale hit would apply to a unit that is given explicit rules for how it remains on the table? This seems relatively easy to parse out

If your argument is, "dammit, Richard, be more consistent in your use of terminology!" then I guess I agree?

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Re: Close Combat 4 x dice to enemy player

Post by Truscott Trotter » Wed Sep 18, 2019 1:55 am

No there is no entry for support unit breaks - but this question has gone uncorrected despite being raised several times for 6 years now so one assumes it is not a typo

Yes rout appears in several places in CoC and now seems to have several meanings.
I can see this being VERY confusing to new players and some not so new!

In every other rule sets the sequence tends to go (in order of severity)
- fall-back/withdrawal
-Break/ retreat
- Rout/destroyed

Not apparently in CoC?

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Re: Close Combat 4 x dice to enemy player

Post by Quackstheking » Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:28 am

I spoke to Rich last week and he confirmed the entry should be read as Support Unit breaks not Support Unit Routs.

Don

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Re: Close Combat 4 x dice to enemy player

Post by Truscott Trotter » Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:30 am

Ok anyone want to start a new errata list?

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Re: Close Combat 4 x dice to enemy player

Post by Quackstheking » Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:18 am

I think Rich is collecting up stuff for an updated Errata list.

However with Infamy, Infamy now in early play testing, the Malaya Book slowly being formalised, Operation Market Garden PSC being planned with Nick, the 2019 Lard Annual on the horizon and what seems like an infinite number of Lardy Days to attend, Rich's limited time left means don't expect anything too soon!

Don

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Truscott Trotter
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Re: Close Combat 4 x dice to enemy player

Post by Truscott Trotter » Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:20 am

I reckon John Bond should do this one as they are mainly his questions :roll: :lol:

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Re: Close Combat 4 x dice to enemy player

Post by MLB » Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:19 am

Quackstheking wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:28 am
I spoke to Rich last week and he confirmed the entry should be read as Support Unit breaks not Support Unit Routs.

Don
Now that seems perfectly logical, I have always wondered about why there was a difference roll for support units.
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Re: Close Combat 4 x dice to enemy player

Post by Truscott Trotter » Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:33 am

The OP remains as
Rout: (see Section 14, Shock and 13, Close
Combat). Units are considered to Rout when
they leave the table due to excess Shock at the
end of a Turn, if they are forced to leave the table
during play, or if they Rout due to Close Combat.
(See Section 13, Close Combat.)


then Section 13
then the side with fewer dice Routs immediately.

is misleading. I think the easiest solution is to remove the reference to chapter 13 close combat in the definition and the word rout in Sec 13 and replace with fall back, withdraw or retreat.

Thus leaving the only routing for units that break at the end of a turn to rout off table.

However there is one other reference to rout and that is AFV crew that leave their vehicles when the flamethrowers do damage - presumably shock they do that immediately and that is called rout in the rules book. p 58 Sec 12.5

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