Close Combat 4 x dice to enemy player

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Archdukek
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Re: Close Combat 4 x dice to enemy player

Post by Archdukek »

By my reading the Glossary definition of Rout on page 9 doesn't require a unit to be automatically removed from the table. That requirement is specifically imposed on Broken units at Turn End by the rule in section 14.4 Broken Units. Otherwise a unit is removed if forced off table during a phase by the movement penalty caused by Breaking from double shock or having Routed in close combat. It doesn't stop at the table edge but just keeps going in both cases.

John

batesmotel34
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Re: Close Combat 4 x dice to enemy player

Post by batesmotel34 »

To summarize, my interpretation is that a "rout" is an action to move precipitously away from the enemy, e.g. the 6+2d6 when outnumbered 4-1 for dice in close combat or when a unit initially breaks, or leaving the table when a unit is broken and a turn end occurs. Broken is a troop state like pinned. The specific BTH checks are only for routs in specific circumstances, e.g. a leader leaves the table or a support unit routs in general.

It is troops in the "state" broken that leave the table automatically when the turn ends (if they still have enough shock to still be broken, otherwise recover to pinned or better).

Chris

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JOHN BOND 001
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Re: Close Combat 4 x dice to enemy player

Post by JOHN BOND 001 »

Richard Clarke's response in red :
Rule book Page 59 13.1.1
Resolving Close Combat
“Total up the number of dice to be rolled by each side. If one side has four or more times as many dice as their opponent, then the side with fewer dice Routs immediately. They will fall back 3D6 inches with their backs to the enemy and take eight points of Shock”
Questions
• Does the wording “Rout” just means fall back?
Not quite. It means that they have their backs to the enemy as opposed to retiring facing the enemy. However, they have not broken unless their shock level reaches double, as usual. So no Force Morale Test unless they actually break.
• If the unit is not PINNED by the shock can it be activated as normal in the Players next Phase?
Yes. See above.
• While moving away with 3D6 of movement how would this unit deal with a deep river that can only be crossed by boat?
You’d move directly away from the enemy until the river was reached and then complete the move along the bank. The direction along the bank will be the one which leaves the unit furthest from the enemy. When equal distances would result, just roll a dice.

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Truscott Trotter
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Re: Close Combat 4 x dice to enemy player

Post by Truscott Trotter »

Fine with that but, how does this work with the other uses of the term rout in the book?

Also what happens if the reach the edge of the table as in tanks being driven off?

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Steve McG
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Re: Close Combat 4 x dice to enemy player

Post by Steve McG »

John,

Thanks for getting those answers. It is very useful to have this clarified by Richard.

So x4 Dice in Close Combat is not quite a Rout and not quite a fall back. The matter is closed and I personally am very happy to play it that way as I have said above. But it does leave me slightly bemused.

Did Richard say why a unit would be better off getting x4 dice and "Falling Back 3D6" rather than getting x 3 Dice and getting smashed in Close Combat? Cos generally one would feel that x4 dice would end up worse.
There's a fundamental truth to our nature. Man must explore. ... Neil Armstrong

Munin
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Re: Close Combat 4 x dice to enemy player

Post by Munin »

No I don't think it is worse, because 4x dice is running away before the fight even starts, as opposed to getting a bunch of guys killed and then running away. Watching your compatriots fall back from obviously overwhelming odds should be less damaging to your morale than watching them get butchered.

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Truscott Trotter
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Re: Close Combat 4 x dice to enemy player

Post by Truscott Trotter »

So if it is a support unit that runs away you roll on the BTH table but if a core section or team you don't?????

Munin
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Re: Close Combat 4 x dice to enemy player

Post by Munin »

Is this the tank thing? As far as I know, if a unit is driven off the table, it counts as being lost regardless of whether it is a core or a support unit. The only question is whether or not it accrues sufficient Shock to have counted as having been "broken" BEFORE it left the table, because if it did, then that's two BTH rolls. The exception to this is for broken units that are removed from the table because of the end of the turn, presumably because the longer pause in the action softens the blow (unless of course they take a leader with them, which is it's own morale hit).

I fully acknowledge, however, that this might just be my interpretation of the way the rule works.

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Truscott Trotter
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Re: Close Combat 4 x dice to enemy player

Post by Truscott Trotter »

No it is no 'the tank thing' it is Table 16 line 12 - "Support unit routs"

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Steve McG
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Re: Close Combat 4 x dice to enemy player

Post by Steve McG »

Munin wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:14 pm
No I don't think it is worse, because 4x dice is running away before the fight even starts, as opposed to getting a bunch of guys killed and then running away. Watching your compatriots fall back from obviously overwhelming odds should be less damaging to your morale than watching them get butchered.
Yes "Falling Back/Routing" before the combat might be less damaging on your morale. But what was actually bemusing me was that they were worse off when the dice were calculated. If they had 3x dice they would've been cut to pieces, Broken with probably a leader casualty so 2 x BTH. BUT by being overwhelmed and getting 4x dice they "Fall back/Rout" with no BTH and live to fight perfectly well no worries at all.

Still very happy to play that way …. just a bit Bemused

;)
There's a fundamental truth to our nature. Man must explore. ... Neil Armstrong

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