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Why is Smoke Bullet Proof?

Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:07 pm
by andysyk
Why can you not fire into smoke? It is actually a standard practice to fire into smoke. Especially at the tactical level, which is why it is not used for screening at the tactical level, except as a distraction device but more as a blinding device.

Re: Why is Smoke Bullet Proof?

Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:19 pm
by Truscott Trotter
Is it standard practice?

I would have thought waiting until they were silhouetted against the edge of the smoke and then firing.

I once spent several days looking for real life accounts of wargaming smoke use for screening an attack but could not find any. I did find many other uses of smoke but none like it is used on the tabletop.

Mainly I suspect because in real life it is far less precise and reliable than in our games.

PS in CoC you can now fire into grenade launched smoke (personally I think light mortar smoke should be the same.)

Re: Why is Smoke Bullet Proof?

Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:07 pm
by andysyk
Yes any deployment of smoke on the tactical level is seen as an indication of enemy movement so you put fire into it. Stupid not to. The actual standard practice of the 2" Mortar is to drop it directly on or near to an enemy position to blind them not screen your own movements. Its very effective that way because they can not see but everyone can direct fire at the smoke because its roughly where they are. Screening really begins at Medium Mortars up. You can use LM smoke and SHG at low level to confuse the enemy. But if you chuck smoke and move directly behind it youre going to suffer. The earliest 2" Mortar manual indicates its smoke bombs are to be used in this way, blinding. And its standard practice to this day. Smoke is not "Bullet proof" but in COC it is the only thing that just about is. in COC your Smoke is pretty precise so any enemy knows what that indicates so he would just fire into it.

Re: Why is Smoke Bullet Proof?

Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:15 pm
by Truscott Trotter
Leaving the manuals/game aside and reading the first hand accunts gives a very different story

Re: Why is Smoke Bullet Proof?

Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:15 pm
by Seret
andysyk wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:07 pm
Why can you not fire into smoke?
You can, you just can't put effective fire through it.

I don't see any reason why you couldn't put covering fire onto some smoke though. but no, the rules don't allow you to put aimed fire through mortar smoke which I think is fair enough.

Smoke grenade smoke, fire away. It did used to be a bit too effective, but got nerfed in the last FAQ.

Re: Why is Smoke Bullet Proof?

Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:26 pm
by andysyk
I thought the rules prevented all fire unless its HG smoke?. Smoke wasn't very commonly used at the tactical level in WW2 apart from the British and the US later in the war, it had many different methods of deployment. In British usage before late 43 far more HE bombs where issued than Smoke to the 2". It was never an exclusive Smoke deployer, even late war allocation was 18 Smoke to 12 HE hardly an in game 3 rounds vs unlimited.

Re: Why is Smoke Bullet Proof?

Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:38 pm
by Seret
It blocks LOS yes, so you can't engage them with aimed fire. You could still put down covering fire to something you can still see or the smoke itself, or you could say your guys are firing but not roll any dice. It's a bit like the reduction in firepower dice you get from shock, your guys might be firing plenty, but their fire isn't very effective so you don't get to roll as many dice.

Re: Why is Smoke Bullet Proof?

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:01 am
by Truscott Trotter
81mm smoke round right at end of video this may just block LOS but good luck landing that close to the target
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qe2o5zIVc5o

Big mortars firing smoke
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A81Ue2Iamp0
Look at 9 min mark-10.30 smoke as well as HE

compared with 2" at 1 min mark here
https://film.iwmcollections.org.uk/record/1929

Re: Why is Smoke Bullet Proof?

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:42 pm
by Petek
During my stint as a British TA Infantryman in the 1980s, it was standard practice during a platoon assault (2 up, 1 back) for the Section Leaders to lob multiple smoke grenades in front of the advancing sections. This gave the sections a chance to move tactically (very close to the ground and working as a team) to get into position ready for the final run through the enemy position. The smoke was not relied on to totally screen us, but it was very disruptive for the enemy to try to shoot on target. Bit like a game of "Whack-a-mole" ;) Never had the Company mortars screening us with smoke (too busy firing HE) and the 2in mortar was never issued to my Platoon. We just had the smoke grenades.
I think the revised smoke grenade rules in the Errata are just about right.