Rifleman - but what gun?

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jdg
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Re: Rifleman - but what gun?

Post by jdg »

"If we added a "couple" of them to a squad how would it impact on the platoon rating?"

The STG44 was not issued piecemeal in ones and two to sections.

jdg

TommyThor
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Re: Rifleman - but what gun?

Post by TommyThor »

jdg wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:34 am
"If we added a "couple" of them to a squad how would it impact on the platoon rating?"

The STG44 was not issued piecemeal in ones and two to sections.

jdg
The STG44 yes but its predecessors (MP43/44) I think were actually used to supplement the Kar 98K, so I don't think its unfeasible to use a "couple" per squad, or have one squad in the platoon fully equipped with them.

The fact that they were not used in great numbers should have a smaller bearing in CoC since we play on a platoon level, and as such we can field one of the "luckier" which were given better equipment. In any case although far bellow the numbers of the ubiquitous Kar 98K they produced in excess of 400k of this assault riffle range.

But not only the MP43/44/STG assault riffle were used besides the Car 98K. From late 42 onward they employed semi-automatic carbines up to the Kar 43, also built in excess of 400k.

So, back to my original question, why not have alternate lists for mid/late war with builds using this weapon options?

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Truscott Trotter
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Re: Rifleman - but what gun?

Post by Truscott Trotter »

Because we have no alternate genric lists for mid or late war at all....yet 😊

But anyone can make one I have done Commandos and Polish Home army.

EDIT From my breif reading SS Chalemagne had one Stg 44 per section issued.

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Seret
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Re: Rifleman - but what gun?

Post by Seret »

There were a few of them around in some units prior to the organisation of the Volksgrenadier divisions, especially in elite units. Very few though. The vast majority were used to equip the new Volksgrenadier units.
TommyThor wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:57 am
So, back to my original question, why not have alternate lists for mid/late war with builds using this weapon options?
The weapon essentially wasn't available mid-war. There were a few experimental ones around in 43, but they were like hen's teeth. For late war you have the Volksgrenadier lists as others have mentioned. Or if you want to include a few in your other units then you can make that tweak using the CoCulator.

Basically if you want to do it and your opponents are ok with it then get stuck in.

Personally though, one of my regular opponents has some of his miniatures equipped with StG-44s. They look nice, but we just treat them all as being equipped with bolt-action rifles. No reason you couldn't just do that too.

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7dot62mm
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Re: Rifleman - but what gun?

Post by 7dot62mm »

TommyThor wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:56 pm
Looking at the various Army list, but specifically the German lists, I'm a bit at a loss by the fact that only the machine gun used by the teams gets identified, any other member is considered a Rifleman. But what exactly what kind of "Rifle" are they using in each list? When can we consider the use of Assault rifles, for instance
Historically an assault rifle was considered to be a Mpi (SMG) in the German army. Therefore I'd say that assault rifles shouldn't be issued to a "rifleman" in our lists because the historical TOE does not agree with such. However issuing one semi-automatic rifle per section would probably be appropriate from 1942 onwards.

donglewwe
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Re: Rifleman - but what gun?

Post by donglewwe »

As to the effect on the game, this seems to me to be reflected in the granular application of hits/kills by team. Now we're looking at applying effects to individual team members. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but all players must (imo) agree before the game to the conditions

I ran a game wherein the LMG #1 and #2 were specific figures, and the (random) removal of one of them meant that a full activation phase was required for another fig to assume those duties and return the weapon to full power.

However historically accurate it was, it interjected an interesting narrative to the game, as making sure the squad LMG was adequately crewed became a part of the game's story.

I imagine the same for Assault rifles...do the other fellows even know how to use them?

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Truscott Trotter
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Re: Rifleman - but what gun?

Post by Truscott Trotter »

Yup pointy end towarda the enemy and pull the trigger. :D
Personally I wouldn't bother tracking them as the defender choosing the dead is enough.. i don't bother tracking smg either.

TommyThor
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Re: Rifleman - but what gun?

Post by TommyThor »

7dot62mm wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:52 pm
TommyThor wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:56 pm
Looking at the various Army list, but specifically the German lists, I'm a bit at a loss by the fact that only the machine gun used by the teams gets identified, any other member is considered a Rifleman. But what exactly what kind of "Rifle" are they using in each list? When can we consider the use of Assault rifles, for instance
Historically an assault rifle was considered to be a Mpi (SMG) in the German army. Therefore I'd say that assault rifles shouldn't be issued to a "rifleman" in our lists because the historical TOE does not agree with such. However issuing one semi-automatic rifle per section would probably be appropriate from 1942 onwards.
The Assault Rifle models were meant to replace the Kar 98K, bring more power to the field with a decent range. Its a fact that even in semi-auto mode they fell a bit short of the Kar 98K in terms of accuracy (and range), and that's why the plan was to keep some Kar 98K as specialist weapons (sniping, but also to fire rifle grenades), but I've never read they treated them as SMG, especially given the very short range of this weapons compared to the Assault Riffle models.

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7dot62mm
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Re: Rifleman - but what gun?

Post by 7dot62mm »

TommyThor wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:47 pm
I've never read they treated them as SMG, especially given the very short range of this weapons compared to the Assault Riffle models.
They weren't treated as SMGs, they were organizationally considered to be SMGs. Therefore from around 1944 onwards, in any TOE which mentions an Mpi the weapon actually handed out to the soldier may have been an assault rifle and not an SMG.

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