Shock and its effect on Infantry

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JOHN BOND 001
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Shock and its effect on Infantry

Post by JOHN BOND 001 » Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:32 pm

Clarification needed for the the following statements.
thanks John

Shock and its effect on Infantry
[*]Shock is applied to Team.
[*]Shock can be shared between teams that are 4” of each and from the same section.
[*]Shock cannot be shared between teams from different Sections or support teams.
[*]1 point of Shock on a team will reduce its movement by 1”
[*]2 points of Shock on a team will reduce its firing ability by 1 fire dice

Example:
Rifle team with 5 points of Shock
MG team with 3 points of Shock
Are from the same section and within 4’” of each other.

Movement
Yes/No
This section can be activated as a whole to move on a command dice of 2 or by one initiative from a Leader and will reduce its movement by 8”.
Yes/No
This same section can be activated via a Leader using 2 initiatives to move each team individually thus the Rifle team with suffer only 5” while the LMG with suffer 3” penalty. Yes/No


Firing
Yes/No
This same section can be activated as a whole to fire on a command dice of 2 or by one initiative from a Leader and will lose 4 Fire dice.
Yes/No
This same section activating each team separately via using Command dice of 1s or via 2 command Initiatives from a Leader, thus the Rifle team with lose 2 Fire dice while the LMG team will lose 1 Fire dice.

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Truscott Trotter
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Re: Shock and its effect on Infantry

Post by Truscott Trotter » Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:37 pm

However you move em each team reduces by their own shock

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john de terre neuve
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Re: Shock and its effect on Infantry

Post by john de terre neuve » Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:20 am

Example:
Rifle team with 5 points of Shock
MG team with 3 points of Shock
Are from the same section and within 4’” of each other.

Movement
This section can be activated as a whole to move on a command dice of 2 or by one initiative from a Leader and will reduce its movement by 8”.
NO They both move 3" collectively
This same section can be activated via a Leader using 2 initiatives to move each team individually thus the Rifle team with suffer only 5” while the LMG with suffer 3” penalty.
YES

Firing
This same section can be activated as a whole to fire on a command dice of 2 or by one initiative from a Leader and will lose 4 Fire dice.
YES
This same section activating each team separately via using Command dice of 1s or via 2 command Initiatives from a Leader, thus the Rifle team with lose 2 Fire dice while the LMG team will lose 1 Fire dice.
NOT SURE-but does not seem correct

Munin
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Re: Shock and its effect on Infantry

Post by Munin » Sat Jun 22, 2019 1:17 am

As TT said, each team only counts its own Shock when determining the effects of fire or movement.
JOHN BOND 001 wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:32 pm
Example:
Rifle team with 5 points of Shock
MG team with 3 points of Shock
Are from the same section and within 4’” of each other.
JOHN BOND 001 wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:32 pm
Movement
This section can be activated as a whole to move on a command dice of 2 or by one initiative from a Leader and will reduce its movement by 8”.
Yes/No?
NO. When activated as a section, the rifle team will move (Nd6 - 5)" and the MG team will move (Nd6 - 3)". You have the choice to move at the speed of your slowest team.
JOHN BOND 001 wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:32 pm
This same section can be activated via a Leader using 2 initiatives to move each team individually thus the Rifle team with suffer only 5” while the LMG with suffer 3” penalty. Yes/No?
YES, but as above, you wouldn't need to do this as spending a single CI (or using a 2) would accomplish the exact same effect. Note that there is one ambiguity here, which is that if the two teams are activated together you'd roll the Nd6 movement ONCE and apply each team's movement penalty separately. But it could be argued that if they were activated independently, each would roll its Nd6 movement roll separately before applying its movement penalty. This isn't explicitly spelled out in the rules and wasn't precisely what you were asking, but I thought you might want to be aware of it.
JOHN BOND 001 wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:32 pm
Firing
This same section can be activated as a whole to fire on a command dice of 2 or by one initiative from a Leader and will lose 4 Fire dice. Yes/No?
NO, each team applies only it's own Shock penalty, so the Rifle team will lose 2 dice and the MG team will lose 1.
JOHN BOND 001 wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:32 pm
This same section activating each team separately via using Command dice of 1s or via 2 command Initiatives from a Leader, thus the Rifle team with lose 2 Fire dice while the LMG team will lose 1 Fire dice. Yes/No?
YES, but as above this isn't necessary. Each team applies only it's own Shock penalty, so the Rifle team will lose 2 dice and the MG team will lose 1.

The term "share Shock" is only important when calculating when a unit is Pinned or Broken. For all other applications, each team only cares about the Shock that it is carrying. You can have a 3-man LMG team with 6 points of Shock that's neither Pinned nor Broken so long as there are at least 3 men and no Shock in their associated Rifle team within 4" - but that LMG will be subtracting 3 dice from its firing and will need to allocate at least 2D6 movement to be able to go anywhere, as they are losing 6" off their movement.

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JOHN BOND 001
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Re: Shock and its effect on Infantry

Post by JOHN BOND 001 » Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:31 am

Thank you TT, John and Munin for your help.
cheers John

Archdukek
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Re: Shock and its effect on Infantry

Post by Archdukek » Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:56 am

John,
For future reference, if you need it, you might like to note that Section 14.1 Application of Shock on page 62 is quite explicit that Shock is applied to Teams rather than Sections. Shock is never shared.

However Teams from the same Section within 4" of each other may support each other by spreading the morale effect, ie calculating whether they are pinned or broken, across the Section as a whole.

John

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Truscott Trotter
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Re: Shock and its effect on Infantry

Post by Truscott Trotter » Sat Jun 22, 2019 9:00 am

One of Richs elegant rules that may be a bit tricky when first read but you will learn to appreciate it's subtlety.

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john de terre neuve
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Re: Shock and its effect on Infantry

Post by john de terre neuve » Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:03 am

Example:
Rifle team with 5 points of Shock
MG team with 3 points of Shock
Are from the same section and within 4’” of each other.JOHN BOND 001 wrote: ↑
Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:32 pm
Firing
This same section can be activated as a whole to fire on a command dice of 2 or by one initiative from a Leader and will lose 4 Fire dice. Yes/No?

NO, each team applies only it's own Shock penalty, so the Rifle team will lose 2 dice and the MG team will lose 1.
Well I am surprised at that as we have always applied it collectively. So if I have it right, when each team has 1 shock than you lose no "to hit" die.


Great questions John

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Truscott Trotter
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Re: Shock and its effect on Infantry

Post by Truscott Trotter » Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:08 am

Correct.
The ONLY time shock is shared is for pinning/breaking.

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JOHN BOND 001
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Re: Shock and its effect on Infantry

Post by JOHN BOND 001 » Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:25 am

I think 7 weeks of holidays and not gaming for a while has clouded my memory a little, anyway I know you all can set me right with the right answers.
cheers John. ;)

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