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HE Effect walls/forests

Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:54 pm
by john de terre neuve
Another interesting came up in our last Von Luck game.

The terrain has a forest and a orchard surounded by stone walls.

How do you calculate the effect of HE from off table Mortar fire? Usually 5 and 6 are hits but in forest/orchards 4+ hits.

But the troops are up against a high stone wall which is a major obstacle.

Is it 4+ or 5+ to hit in this situation.

Thanks,
John

Re: HE Effect walls/forests

Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:00 pm
by Archdukek
It would be 4+ to hit since they are still in the orchard and vulnerable to the splinters caused by the trees being hit by falling mortar shells landing from overhead. If anything the surrounding high stones walls would probably concentrate some of the barrage blast effects not provide cover.

John

Re: HE Effect walls/forests

Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:20 pm
by Seret
Being in woods/orchards makes it a close range target, so regulars will be hit on a 4+.

The effect of cover gets factored into the next roll, same as normal. If you give them the benefit of hard cover due to the stone wall, that goes down to light cover. So hit on a 4+, then 4-5 is shock, 6 is a kill. if they go tactical then they'll be able to cancel out the cover reduction from the barrage.

Re: HE Effect walls/forests

Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:42 pm
by john de terre neuve
Ok, but you bring up another question. We have always played that in respect to hits from HE you ignore whether the soldiers are elite, regular or green.

Your answer
so regulars will be hit on a 4+
suggests otherwise.

Also you can go tactical while under a barrage, I thought you could not move (go tactical) under a barrage

Thanks again,

John

Re: HE Effect walls/forests

Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:33 pm
by Munin
IIRC, adopting the "tactical" stance does not require movement. But you don't really need to do it anyway, because being pinned already increases your cover, and tactical doesn't stack with this. You can only get so close to the ground, my friend.

And yes, HE always hits on a 4+ regardless of troop quality, but mortars often make a distinction between close/effective range. In that regard, they're sort of like autocannons.

Re: HE Effect walls/forests

Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:49 pm
by Truscott Trotter
The stone wall is more liable to cause deadly splinters in a barrage awhile ago in another topic I quoted an example of this from post d-day incident.

Now I know the rules do not account for this but I would not be giving any extra cover for it and leave them hit on a 4+

Re: HE Effect walls/forests

Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:57 pm
by Seret
john de terre neuve wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:42 pm
Ok, but you bring up another question. We have always played that in respect to hits from HE you ignore whether the soldiers are elite, regular or green.
In real life, yes, mortars are HE. In CoC, they aren't. The 4+ to hit thing is just HE guns. Mortars roll against troop quality.
Also you can go tactical while under a barrage, I thought you could not move (go tactical) under a barrage
You can adopt a tactical stance without moving. See p17 under "Section and Team actions", first option on the list is: "Make no movement and adopt a Tactical stance". But as Munin said it would only really be of benefit in the first phase of being stonked. Every subsequent phase you're pinned so already have your cover buffed one level.

Re: HE Effect walls/forests

Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:11 pm
by Truscott Trotter
Seret mortars are 4+ to hit with off table mortars because.of the orchard splinters see earlier in thread.
Edit I agree though with the logic that the 4+ for HE is not relevant for mortars inn other circumstances.
We seem to be going round in circles on these mortar point's
:roll:

Also cover benefits do stack according to the errata. Consider it as digging holes for your battledress buttons to fit in and get you closer to the ground. :D

Re: HE Effect walls/forests

Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:02 pm
by john de terre neuve
OK tactical only good in first bombardment

Off Table Mortars take in account troop quality except in forest when calculating to hit.

Thanks

Re: HE Effect walls/forests

Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 4:03 am
by Dbsubashi
As per page 46:
“Roll for each Team (not Section or Squad), treating them as an Effective Range target and reducing cover by one level for any hits when rolling on Table 5, Hit Effect. Any troops in woodland or orchards will be treated as a Close Range target...”
Off table mortars always the troop quality when rolling to hit. So they would hit Elite troops on 6’s normally, or on 5 and 6’s when they are in woods or orchards.
Yes, I have been playing it wrong as well!