New to CoC - Soviet tactics?

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Ledfoot65
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New to CoC - Soviet tactics?

Post by Ledfoot65 » Sun May 26, 2019 10:37 pm

My friends and I have played 2 games of CoC so far, both a Soviet rifle platoon vs a German PZG. It has not gone well for the Soviets in either game with the LMG firepower from the German squads greatly exceeding Soviet firepower and the difference in force costs not providing enough in support options to make up the difference. With only 2 games so far, I am sure we are missing/misplayinng some critical mechanics but we need some insight to get us back on track.

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Truscott Trotter
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Re: New to CoC - Soviet tactics?

Post by Truscott Trotter » Sun May 26, 2019 11:36 pm

As a Soviet player I can say three things
1.) Don't get into a squad on squad firefight with the Germans
2.) Don't get into a squad on squad firefight with the Germans
3.) see 1 and 2 above :lol:

Firstly are you playing the errata?
Pzr Grens with 2 LMG are costed at +3 or +9 if elite
While the Soviets should be at -3 or even for green -7
so assuming a difference of 6 that could give you 2 MMG or a fourth squad and a flamthrower
or may fav go green and with the 10 points get a full engineer squad with 2 flamethrowers and an elite scout squad

Always take the pre-game barrage if you can so you can use your special rule - also a special rule for the scouts!

The biggest issue for the Soviet is lack of Command - with only 1 SL you have to be very careful.

Sure you can choose units with JL - like the engineers and scouts but if you want a fire base of MMG etc you need the SL to operate this but you also need the SL at the pointy end to mass your units - - 2 full Soviet sections going into assault simultaneously will give his Pzgz Grens a tough time even with 2 LMG.

I position the SL out of LOS but within 9" of the fire base and 9" of the infantry to move into attack - at some point he has to abandon the fire base to the whims of the command dice and advance behind the assaulting troops

In defence it is a bit easier and the flame thrower make a handy ambush team - just stay in hard cover and do not be afraid to go tactical or withdraw a squad as it starts to hurt. Use your support weapons to put the hurt on him from a distance.

If you are playing LW Germans with panzerfausts and Schreks avoid Soviet armour at all costs it is a waste of points as it will not do much before it burns.

Take more infantry and try and get to grips with the Germans in close assault - even if you lose a squad the German squad with be combat ineffective after it and keep pushing - use your numbers and scout moves to outflank.

EDIT: One other 'tactic' you can deploy a section in an entrenchment in front of the PGr section at long range and fire covering fire at him, either with that unit of a nearby weapon team.
This means it is a 6 to hit you and a 6 to kill
Note in errata referring to Soviet one team sections - They require only one Team entrenchment for the entire Squad or Section

sackatatties
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Re: New to CoC - Soviet tactics?

Post by sackatatties » Mon May 27, 2019 9:39 am

Not much to add to TTs tactics talk except:
1) the PzGren force rating in the main rules is too low. Check the latest FAQ for the proper values.
2) the Soviet platoon orbat changed constantly up until 1943 and you have the SMG and Guards units which have a very different flavour to them. There are other platoon orgs that might suit you better in the Pint Sized Campaigns such as the Kursk ones. There are even more in the specials and in Winterstorm.

As TT has already touched on, because the soviets use full sections rather than splitting them into teams they get cheap entrenchments (and effectively more of them) since they can entrench a section for 1 support point and it only takes one entrenchment to dig a section in. Overwatch is also cheap as it only costs 1 CI to place a full section on Overwatch.

You get MMGs for 3 support points rather than 4..... don't forget the infantry guns either (they come with a JL).

Soviets are actually pretty good in CoC once you get your head around the way they work. Support options are also varied and plentiful.

Dbsubashi
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Re: New to CoC - Soviet tactics?

Post by Dbsubashi » Mon May 27, 2019 12:33 pm

Another boon for Russian players in the HMG. At only 4 Support points this a beast. The HMG reduces cover by 1 step, comes with a gun shield, and has a Close range of 24”. Put in near your SL in an entrenchment, within 4” of a squad also in entrenchments (to disperse incoming hits) and bring the pain.
Entrenchments are no joke. The ability to put all of your squads in heavy cover is a blessing. There is little heavy cover in Russia. The buildings are mostly wooden, giving only light cover. If you are playing a German Grenadier list, you can easily pick up 3 entrenchments and have Support points left for a flamethrower team or a MMG, all before you gain any Support points for the mission.
Use these to set up a strong fire base, 1-2 squads to punish your opponent, and use your other squads to maneuver. Anytime you can take a pre-game barrage, take it! This should allow you to establish your fire base, cutting off whole swathes of the board from your opponent. Then use scout teams to steal his jump off points! Use the time the barrage gives you to constrict your opponent’s ability to deploy. When the enemy is constantly more worried about keeping his jump off points than shooting you, he will make mistakes you can exploit.
Remember that in CoC, squad on squad firefights are for suckers. Concentrate 2 units (or more!) on a single target. Abuse your target until it breaks, then abuse the next one. One trick I have used is to deploy a squad in entrenchments near a building. When the squad starts to take more Shock than it can handle, run them behind the building out of line of sight, and then deploy a fresh squad into the entrenchments. This will allow you to keep up your firepower, while giving you time to mitigate Shock safely, something the Russians struggle with.

Ledfoot65
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Re: New to CoC - Soviet tactics?

Post by Ledfoot65 » Mon May 27, 2019 9:30 pm

Thanks everyone, this was a real help!

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7dot62mm
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Re: New to CoC - Soviet tactics?

Post by 7dot62mm » Tue May 28, 2019 7:40 am

A standard tactic of the Germans - whether attacking or defending - is to deploy their troops into hard cover and then use the LMGs to annihilate all opposition and once that is done move forwards. If you're defending, avoid deploying your troops until absolutely necessary and when you do deploy use plenty of firepower at once concentrating on a single enemy sub-unit, hoping to break or pin them.

Ledfoot65
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Re: New to CoC - Soviet tactics?

Post by Ledfoot65 » Wed May 29, 2019 1:17 am

That’s exactly what the Germans have been doing with great effect so far. Good points on the deployment, thank you

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Truscott Trotter
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Re: New to CoC - Soviet tactics?

Post by Truscott Trotter » Wed May 29, 2019 1:57 am

You could always take an ISU-152
You only have to take it once to meep him Guessing

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MLB
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Re: New to CoC - Soviet tactics?

Post by MLB » Wed May 29, 2019 12:09 pm

While this doesn’t deal specifically with the Russians, you might find this article I wrote about dealing with Panzer grenadiers gives some food for thought http://thetacticalpainter.blogspot.com/ ... chain.html
The Tactical Painter https://thetacticalpainter.blogspot.com
Painting little soldiers for tactical battles on the table top

Dbsubashi
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Re: New to CoC - Soviet tactics?

Post by Dbsubashi » Thu May 30, 2019 1:06 pm

Just some more guidance on deployment Ledfoot. Chain of Command is unlike most tabletop games in that your troops don’t hit the table until you need them to. After years of playing other games where your troops all start on the table, in nice delineated deployment zones, it can feel “off” not to drop your models on the table as soon as possible. Resist this urge. Fight your anxiety, push down the “ I got to get models on the table and make a game of this, after all we only have 2-3 hours to play” zeitgeist, and let your opponent do the fretting. Let those Germans roam out of their cover. Let them degrade their MG teams by sending out their scout teams, allow them to chop their fire power by moving, and invite them into your kill box.
After a few phases of rolling your Command dice and telling your opponent “I deploy nothing, your turn!” It is your opponent who will be anxious, wondering where, when, and how the hammer is going to hit. Allow him this anxiety, as it will lead to mistakes. Let his troops wander into Close range, and then ambush them. Drop 2 (or 3!) squads onto the table, and make those Germans regret taking one step into Mother Russia.

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