Any one

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Rusty
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Re: Any one

Post by Rusty » Fri May 17, 2019 9:27 am

Have to 2 different list
One CMF
One Regular

CMF fought before the guys came back from North Africa
Then Regulas go,back to,fight


Have to have some special traits for both

Archdukek
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Re: Any one

Post by Archdukek » Fri May 17, 2019 10:13 am

Rusty wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 9:27 am
Have to 2 different list
One CMF
One Regular

CMF fought before the guys came back from North Africa
Then Regulas go,back to,fight


Have to have some special traits for both
Not necessarily. The National Characteristics represent the specific training and tactical doctrines used by the particular forces if they are relevant. Depending on the troops involved sometimes nothing special might be justified.
Len has already suggested that Militia troops lacked the training to be able to benefit from either "5 Rounds Rapid" or "Concentrated Fire" so a list for them would omit both of those which would distinguish it from the Regulars. Whether they would benefit from either the "Stubborn Troops" or "Thompson Gunner" traits which Len has suggested I don't know.

John

Munin
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Re: Any one

Post by Munin » Fri May 17, 2019 5:42 pm

Tangentially related, I've been doing a bunch of research into various things North Africa and it's pretty clear that the New Zealanders in particular should probably rate as "Aggressive." They were also very well-trained/practiced at night marches, though that is something probably best captured in the Patrol Phase.

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Truscott Trotter
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Re: Any one

Post by Truscott Trotter » Fri May 17, 2019 7:00 pm

That was cos someone suggested fhey sneak out of camp at night and go down the pub before the Aussiez drank all the beer.
"How far is the pub bro?"
"800km"
"Sweet, lets get cracking!"

DougM
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Re: Any one

Post by DougM » Fri May 17, 2019 10:28 pm

I would be interested to hear why you think the Australians would be significantly different from British troops in NA (or the 14th Army in Asia). Reading the AWM material (in conjunction with other sources) it looks like the good Aussie troops were as good as other good Commonwealth and British troops, and there weren't really too many Aussie units as poor as some of the worst British/Commonwealth ones.

Stubborn? I would rate most Scottish and South African units as Stubborn, not so much the Aussie ones. For me it looks like the Aussies were more flexible than Stubborn. Aggressive patrolling and less regulated tactical doctrine perhaps.

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Truscott Trotter
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Re: Any one

Post by Truscott Trotter » Sat May 18, 2019 12:40 am

I guess for the same reason any list has national characteristic or Flames of War or Bolt Action do.
They are there for game flavour and do not always (ever?) relate to an actual historical situation.
To do that you would need a separate list for nearly every battle - certainly for every campaign.
Certainly Aussies in NA, Singapore or PNG are not the same in training or performance.

In CoC Rich has tried to get a generic characteristic of training method or performance that applies to that list.
I am sure there are plenty of iconoclasts in the TFL community that play CoC quite happily without national Characteristics.

andysyk
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Re: Any one

Post by andysyk » Sat May 18, 2019 4:28 pm

I don't always use National Characteristics especially in solo games. I try to use the TOE and tactical doctrine to represent differences. I guess some people want differences highlighted but I think you can go to far. Im wary of awarding the Aggressive Trait to units without specialist Close Combat training. If you applied it to "Keen" units there would be a lot of candidates.

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Truscott Trotter
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Re: Any one

Post by Truscott Trotter » Mon May 20, 2019 12:50 am

OK so they may not have been specially trained to be aggressive but they made up for it with natural talent :lol:
This is from Crete to be fair but a lot of these guys ended up in Far East

(Talking about NZ troops)..."but, unlike Australian soldiers, they did not strike fear into British officers. A yeomanry captain, who had already encountered Australians in Greece, remarked only half in jest of the 6th Australian Division: ‘I think they must have been recruited from the prisons.’

In Canea, a British officer, seeing an Australian filling his pockets with fruit from an old woman’s stall and refusing to pay, remonstrated with him, only to find the muzzle of a looted German pistol thrust into his face. And a Cretan recounted how when a British colonel (probably Jasper Blunt) accompanying the King of Greece had gone to quieten a disturbance outside the window where they were talking, the Australian responsible for the row promptly seized him by the throat and nearly strangled him.

At night, Australian air-raid precautions consisted of shooting at any light they saw, whether a match struck for a cigarette or the correctly dimmed headlamps of a vehicle. Harold Caccia remembered a drive past one of their areas at night as ‘one of the most anxious moments of my life’.

Soon afterwards, this ill-disciplined rabble fought the German paratroopers at Rethymno with savage enthusiasm"


(from "Crete: The Battle and the Resistance" by Antony Beevor)

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Rusty
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Re: Any one

Post by Rusty » Mon May 20, 2019 12:02 pm

Wait as see what comes of the Australians list just use for now with what we have

Thanks guys for all the feed back

BaronVonWreckedoften
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Re: Any one

Post by BaronVonWreckedoften » Tue May 21, 2019 7:40 am

Do the rules cover "sledging"?

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