At the risk of sounding like a d@#k,...

Moderators: Laffe, Vis Bellica

User avatar
Trailape
Posts: 314
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:52 pm

At the risk of sounding like a d@#k,...

Post by Trailape »

Hi Rich and Nic (or anyone else who can shed some light)
At the risk of sounding like a complete d@#k,...
Can I get some confirmation in regards to the Stats / Support Points values of the British Armour in the 1940 Handbook.

I’m not just asking for myself but also a couple of others AND trying to get ahead of the curve because the CANCON tournament in 2020 is going to be BLITZKRIEG themed, (and NO I’m not competing) but will be mentoring and might be doing an ‘Boot Camp’ for people who are interested in playing CoC.
Some issues I’m exploring are for example:
The Mathilda is costed at 5 Support Points in the Handbook (HB) but at 4 Support points in the Consolidated Arsenal (CA). I calculate it should be costed at 4 so is the costing in the HB a mistake or an intentional ‘1940’ nudge upward?
The Vicker Mk VIs are 3 in the HB but 4 in the CA. The armour is thinner in the HB (2) but thicker (3) in the CA. Is this because the Brit tankers feared German LMGs more in 1940 or did they instal spall liners in the later Vickers? Ive no idea,.. just guessing.
The armour values differ differ for the A9, A10 and A13 tanks but they are costed at 4 in both the HB and he CA. So the Brit tanks are simply more fragile in 1940? Could be, but bI don’t know.
The A9CS has a HE value of 7 in the CA but either 4 or 0 (not sure which) in the HB.
YES, I realise there is this:
“Post by Richard » Sun Sep 16, 2018 2:32 am

The 1940 handbook adds some new characteristics which affect the coculator, but only for this specific book. The issue is that the handbooks will be stand-alone, so what is correct in France in 1940 may be quite different in Russia a year later. It does complicate things a bit, so I feel it's best to keep the coculator simple and accept the fact that the specific handbooks may differ slightly. For example the same weapon can have slightly different values from one list to another based on availability”

This is great to know but what’s intentional and what’s simply a typo?
Some might say “well, common sense should make it obvious” but common sense is not a common virtue.
Maybe a simple solution might simply be a 1940 HB Errata PDF.
I have no idea.

Oh,... and is there some clarity on how a CS tank delivers smoke on the table? Please don’t tell me ‘Just like a 2 inch mortar’,... its not the same.
I’m just house ruling it at the moment

Anyway, just putting it out there,...
Feel free to flame 🔥 on.
It’s not a case of simply dumping a bag of dead cats on the table but rather trying to grip some lose ends (as I perceive them) up.
Loving the period by the way and the new scenarios are brilliant.
(Always leave them on a high) :D .
I AM MY BROTHER'S KEEPER

Archdukek
Posts: 4820
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:49 pm
Location: Linlithgow, West Lothian, UK

Re: At the risk of sounding like a d@#k,...

Post by Archdukek »

Hi Scott,
It's not shedding any light as to why there are differences, but given Richard's earlier reply does it not make more sense just to take the Handbook entries as given and as being intentional and ignore the Consolidated Arsenal entries which were created using the CoCulator.

Intriguing questions though. :D

John

User avatar
Truscott Trotter
Posts: 7417
Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:11 pm
Location: Tasmania the Southernmost CoC in the world

Re: At the risk of sounding like a d@#k,...

Post by Truscott Trotter »

Yes the CS smoke should be a larger area than a 2" mortar question is how much.
My guess would be 4"

User avatar
Trailape
Posts: 314
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:52 pm

Re: At the risk of sounding like a d@#k,...

Post by Trailape »

Archdukek wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 6:03 pm
Hi Scott,
It's not shedding any light as to why there are differences, but given Richard's earlier reply does it not make more sense just to take the Handbook entries as given and as being intentional and ignore the Consolidated Arsenal entries which were created using the CoCulator.

Intriguing questions though. :D

John
Hi John
Problem is I cant tell what differences are intentional and what are typos?
I AM MY BROTHER'S KEEPER

User avatar
Trailape
Posts: 314
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:52 pm

Re: At the risk of sounding like a d@#k,...

Post by Trailape »

Truscott Trotter wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 8:47 pm
Yes the CS smoke should be a larger area than a 2" mortar question is how much.
My guess would be 4"
But how is it placed?
I AM MY BROTHER'S KEEPER

User avatar
Trailape
Posts: 314
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:52 pm

Re: At the risk of sounding like a d@#k,...

Post by Trailape »

I suspect Rich will produce a HB Errata in the not to distant future,... when not producing other HBs,... and solving the issue of world peace.
It is obviously a very very tough gig managing a business that is so customer focused with all of what, two people?
I might bimble around this forum and try and consolidate as much as I can at the moment.
We now now Shabby Nazi Tricks and Francs Tireurs are limited and I believe I read somewhere there was an issue regarding the Brit and French ‘1 Pdr’ / 25mm that’s been addressed so I’m sure there’s other stuff.
Might be handy if at least some of these issues are consolidated into the one thread / post.
I AM MY BROTHER'S KEEPER

User avatar
Truscott Trotter
Posts: 7417
Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:11 pm
Location: Tasmania the Southernmost CoC in the world

Re: At the risk of sounding like a d@#k,...

Post by Truscott Trotter »

Indeed
I suspect this one went so far under Rich's radar in playtesting it was on the Piccadilly line :lol:
I agree it needs a mechanism similar to the direct mortar smoke - I would use that one for now

Archdukek
Posts: 4820
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:49 pm
Location: Linlithgow, West Lothian, UK

Re: At the risk of sounding like a d@#k,...

Post by Archdukek »

Trailape wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 10:02 pm
Hi John
Problem is I cant tell what differences are intentional and what are typos?
Hi Scott,
I'm suggesting that you simply assume all the differences are intentional for now.

There is a already a thread on queries about the Handbook here, but it doesn't answer your questions as far as I can see.
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=9900

John

User avatar
Trailape
Posts: 314
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:52 pm

Re: At the risk of sounding like a d@#k,...

Post by Trailape »

Archdukek wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 11:16 pm
Trailape wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 10:02 pm
Hi John
Problem is I cant tell what differences are intentional and what are typos?
Hi Scott,
I'm suggesting that you simply assume all the differences are intentional for now.

There is a already a thread on queries about the Handbook here, but it doesn't answer your questions as far as I can see.
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=9900

John
Well that makes for rather unbalanced games though doesn’t it?
And yes,.. I’m not concerned with having perfectly balanced games or point systems. I’d play Bolt Action if I was.
But having a 2 point Tank packing 3 MGs, a 2 inch mortar and Main Gun lobbing 4HE around can pretty much ruin a game ;)
and that’s just one example.
Anyway I’ll just ‘house rule’ it all for now.
I AM MY BROTHER'S KEEPER

User avatar
Trailape
Posts: 314
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:52 pm

Re: At the risk of sounding like a d@#k,...

Post by Trailape »

Archdukek wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 11:16 pm
There is a already a thread on queries about the Handbook here, but it doesn't answer your questions as far as I can see.
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=9900

John
Ahh,.. thanks.
I don’t know how i missed this.
Ta
I AM MY BROTHER'S KEEPER

Post Reply