To the Viktor Line - Campaign

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Neal Smith
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Re: To the Viktor Line - Campaign

Post by Neal Smith » Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:05 pm

Capt Fortier wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:36 pm
I believe the Crusader AA MkII had 20mm Oerlikons, so perhaps that can serve as a guide for the Consolidated Arsenal?

I've attached a link which includes specs for the Oerlikons if that helps.
Can someone check my values here... It seems a little "good" as compared to the Bofors, I really don't know how much autocannons should be bumped up because of the higher rate of fire... I just took what the Crusader had and subtracted 2 for the second gun.

Thanks,
Neal

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Truscott Trotter
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Re: To the Viktor Line - Campaign

Post by Truscott Trotter » Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:20 pm

Its rof 6 in the rule book IIRC for a single barrel autocannon

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Seret
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Re: To the Viktor Line - Campaign

Post by Seret » Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:38 am

Neal Smith wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:05 pm
Can someone check my values here... It seems a little "good" as compared to the Bofors, I really don't know how much autocannons should be bumped up because of the higher rate of fire... I just took what the Crusader had and subtracted 2 for the second gun.
Against most troops the Bofors is a lot better. In this campaign for example, where you're shooting at elites the 20mm autocannons (HE 6 hitting on 6+ at effective and 5+ at close) will only be getting an average of one hit at effective range, two at close range. The Bofors (HE 7, hitting on 4+) will be averaging 3½ hits at any range against any troops. The only time an Oerlikon would be better than a Bofors would be against Green troops at short range.

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Capt Fortier
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Re: To the Viktor Line - Campaign

Post by Capt Fortier » Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:21 pm

Groupe_Franc wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:44 pm
Now for the serious question... I have FJ's (painted and unpainted) but am clueless about British figures for late 1943. So I'd welcome suggestions. Perry? Crusader late war? Advice gratefully received.
I have Artizan with a mix of their 8th Army and British/C'th.
Capt Fortier

“Un optimiste, c'est un homme qui plante deux glands et qui s'achète un hamac.” - Jean de Lattre de Tassigny

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Truscott Trotter
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Re: To the Viktor Line - Campaign

Post by Truscott Trotter » Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:26 pm

Yup I would recommend Artizan too.
Perhaps some judicially chosen BTD Brits to add variety.

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7dot62mm
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Re: To the Viktor Line - Campaign

Post by 7dot62mm » Thu Apr 11, 2019 1:48 pm

Seret wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:33 pm
For late '43 on the Italian mainland you could get away with either shirtsleeves (eg: Perry) or battledress (eg: Crusader). Eighth Army fought Sicily in shorts (it was summer), but they were in trousers by the time they reached Italy proper. They stayed in shirtsleeves for a while, and photos from October do seem to show that it was still warm enough for troops to be dressed like that, but the winter of 43-44 was incredibly cold and after that they'd be in battledress, and to be honest snowsuits some of the time!

For helmets you do see a lot of covers, but not all the scrim you see in NW Europe, and no turtle helmets. One of the main differences is to make sure all the SMGs are Thompsons, not Stens. Eighth Army didn't use Stens, even their Paras had tommy guns.
Thanks for this!

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Capt Fortier
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Re: To the Viktor Line - Campaign

Post by Capt Fortier » Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:53 am

I've decided to leave the Germans with 3 platoons but make them all under strength to reflect attrition from their month-long retreat in the face of the Allied invasion, and will do this by a random 1D6 roll for each section the first time the platoon appears, with a result of "1-4" losing 1-4 men respectively (player's choice of team); a "5" losing a whole team (MG42 + 2 crew and 3 riflemen); and a "6" no effect.

Firstly, does that seem reasonable?

And secondly, given my continuing struggle with the CoCulator, what effect if any does that have on their force rating? I don't want the players to have to work out Force Ratings and apply to scenario supports for each possibility, but want instead a reasonable standardised position based on the almost certainty that the Germans will start under strength but with the uncertainty of just how much under strength.

As I see it (noting my hopelessness with CoCulator - and noting I am running FJ with Panzerfaust as support option only), the options range from (best to worst):
  • no losses = 146.67 points, so FR 10 + 2 for 6 dice = +12 FR
  • 3 teams down = 102.67 points, so FR 3 + 2 for 6 dice = +5 FR
Given each of these possibilities are also remote (0.46% if my calculations correct - and my skill with probability is about the same as my skill with CoCulator :? ), then something in between is more realistic. Is it fair and reasonable to split the difference and call it FR +8? That flows through in most of the scenarios to the British having between 14 and 18 Support Points.

Or am I getting that all horribly wrong?
Capt Fortier

“Un optimiste, c'est un homme qui plante deux glands et qui s'achète un hamac.” - Jean de Lattre de Tassigny

Archdukek
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Re: To the Viktor Line - Campaign

Post by Archdukek » Sat Apr 13, 2019 5:17 am

Captain,
For the CoCulator you would reduce the Force Rating by 1 for every 6 points (6 riflemen) lost normally. Losing an MG42 and 3 riflemen would leave you 11 points down reducing your FR by 2. Rather than messing about with probabilities I'd be inclined to go with something as simple as:
1-3 riflemen lost, no effect on FR; 4-6 riflemen lose 1 from FR; MG Team lost take 2 off FR.

Do you really want to give the German platoon a 6th Command Dice? I know they are Fallschrimjager, but even so the 6 Command Dice option should be very rare. You might want to consider the Red Dice option from the Blitzkreig Handbook instead which forces the Germans to make a choice and means the extra Command Dice can be lost more easily. Alternatively give them a small pool of extra CD to draw upon.

John

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Capt Fortier
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Re: To the Viktor Line - Campaign

Post by Capt Fortier » Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:40 am

Thanks John - that does provide a simpler option on Force Rating than where I was headed.

I have followed some of the debate about the 6 Dice and have to confess haven't ever used it. I might review and perhaps go with the option of an extra Command Dice for 2-3 games for the Germans or the red die.
Capt Fortier

“Un optimiste, c'est un homme qui plante deux glands et qui s'achète un hamac.” - Jean de Lattre de Tassigny

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Truscott Trotter
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Re: To the Viktor Line - Campaign

Post by Truscott Trotter » Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:17 am

Captain I have an excel spreadsheet for the CoCulator PM me if you would like a copy - no more guesswork!

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