Official CoCulator

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Re: Official CoCulator

Postby jafo » Tue Nov 04, 2014 1:45 pm

Richard wrote:Ahem, looking through the files, we've only done one list for the Italians. Right, as you say, a superior Junior Leader costing 7 or 8 will make the difference between 0 and -1. I am inclined to go with 7 as that also takes into account the shoddy grenades. So -1 it is. Green is still -5 and Colonials at -7.


My CSE 1 in maths still working after all these years then :)

Right... time to sort out some proxy airfix chaps :)

(There's the Spanish Civil War version of the Italians with the three squad structure but I should be able to work that one out)
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Re: Official CoCulator

Postby hedgehobbit » Tue Nov 04, 2014 7:50 pm

I've got an issue with the CoCulator and adding vehicles to a platoon. Now, it appears from the original tables that Support items are twice as expensive as the same item in the regular platoon; it takes 6 points to increase the Force Rating but only 3 to increase the Support List cost. This is replicated in the Big CoC tables where adding a List 4 vehicle only increases the Force Rating (or is it Force Strength?) by +2. So, for example, I work out the Force Rating for a recon platoon and then add +3 for the six inherent jeeps (each a List 1 item).

This seems to work fine for rather large platoons. However, one of my platoons is a US armored infantry company's anti-tank platoon which is three 57mm AT guns plus a SL and a jeep. Because the non-vehicle part is so small, the platoon ends up with a much lower Force Rating than the AT guns themselves would have been in the Big CoC chart. The Big CoC chart starts at -7 for a 1 point platoon whereas the regular CoCulator starts at -14 for a 1 point platoon. This results in a 7 point swing in costs based on whether I calculate the infantry portion and add the vehicles or if I start with a vehicle platoon and add the infantry (by calculating the support list costs and applying it to the Big CoC chart).

I'm not sure how to handle these.
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Re: Official CoCulator

Postby Archdukek » Tue Nov 04, 2014 9:03 pm

As I understand it Rich quite deliberately made it more expensive to acquire weapons and support options which were not integral to the original platoon. So it costs more to add support to your original platoon reflecting in part the need for the Platoon Commander to appeal to higher authority for the assistance.
Big CoC complicates this a bit because it allows the options of taking whole platoons of armour and infantry as your starting force.

Personally I think you should start from the principle of a core platoon of infantry or armour and that other types of specialist units should be bought as Support choices so will be more expensive.
However, I can see an argument for allowing some discount in the costs for those support platoons which were integral to the Company when you are playing Big CoC.

In your case I would say that the guns are the core of the platoon so you start from there then add some vehicles to make them mobile.
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Re: Official CoCulator

Postby coco le belge » Fri Nov 07, 2014 8:40 pm

A few thoughts,
ok don't get me wrong I really love the game mechanics, but I don't understand the coculator system and how it links to how nations were organised at the level of gameplay. I mean the idea behind the coculator seems interesting but for me it's all maths and stats. It really feels too abstract for me. Is there any alternative way of creating a support list more in line with the army organisation in early/mid and late war. I also would like to be able to field a little more support.

Any idea where to start?

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Re: Official CoCulator

Postby siggian » Fri Nov 07, 2014 9:42 pm

I think the best way to approach this is to create the platoon that you want and the support options you want first. Then you use the CoCulator to figure out its relative strength (+/- adjustments and the support option list numbers)
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Re: Official CoCulator

Postby Truscott Trotter » Fri Nov 07, 2014 11:26 pm

I think the games runs quite well as a plt skirmish game with realistic support levels.
If you want to run more support I would play Big CoC rather than change the basic balance of the games.
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Re: Official CoCulator

Postby rim66 » Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:26 am

Hi Coco,

A couple of thoughts,

On more support, that is easy, just increase the support point allocation. You can increase the number of D6 thrown, for example, and go from there. Both sides have support based on the same throw so it will balance out. That said, a word of caution. The more support you have, the more challenging it will be to do stuff with the standard 5 command dice. One option would be to add more command dice of a different colour, with the different coloured ones not counting 5s or 6s. That way you get more choices for activation but retain the same chances of a second phase/turn end/CoC dice etc.

More tailored lists - very much an option. I have worked on quite a few for mod war Eastern Front and they are with Rich and will come out in due course. All the campaign supplements, whether stand alone or in specials also have bespoke lists. All that is necessary is the research.

I really hope this helps,

Kind regards,

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Re: Official CoCulator

Postby Sigur » Wed Nov 19, 2014 3:02 am

Truscott Trotter wrote:I think the games runs quite well as a plt skirmish game with realistic support levels.
If you want to run more support I would play Big CoC rather than change the basic balance of the games.

Agreed. If people want to get more extra toys on the table it's cool. Agree on each player getting one level 8 support tank or what ever you like and play away. :)

CoC should be about infantry tactics though, it's as simple as that.
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Re: Official CoCulator

Postby Richard » Thu Mar 26, 2015 11:50 am

Morning all. I thought you might appreiate the full up to date CoCulator for infantry, support guns, AFVs and transport. This is up to date as of now.

Rifleman: 1 point
SMG: 2 points
BAR: 3 points
Assault rifle: 2 points
Semi-automatic rifle. +1 point for every 8 men squad. 9-16 men = +2 per squad
Box fed LMG: 6 points
Tray fed LMG: 5 points
Strip fed LMG: 6 points
Belt fed LMG: 8 points
Crew are rated in with their weapon. Any additional riflemen in a weapon team are rated as riflemen, with one point.

2" or 50mm mortar: 3 points
VB launcher, grenade discharger: 3 points
60mm mortar : 4 points
AT rifle: 2 points
PIAT or Bazooka: 4 points
Panzerschreck: 6 points
Each panzerfaust: 1 point
Sniper : 3 points
MMG: 10 points
HMG: 15 points

Senior Leaders are 9 points
Junior Leaders are 6 points
Add +1 for each Leader having an SMG

Now, the number of points a force has will tell us which force rating it gets. These are as follows:
-7: 42 to 47
-6: 48-53
-5: 54-59
-4: 60-65
-3: 66-71
-2: 72-77
-1: 78-83
0: 84-89
1: 90-95
2: 96-101
3: 102-107
4: 108-113
5; 114-119
6: 120-125
7: 126-131
8: 132-137
9: 138-143
10: 144+

Green troops reduce their points value by a third - so a regular platoon rated 90 points would become 60 when Green.
Elite troops add a third to their score. So they would be 120 points if Elite.

Support Weapons
Infantry and AT guns
These are now rated by taking their primary strike (HE is an infantry gun, AP if an AT gun) and adding half of their secondary strike. The total is then halved and rounded down. So, for example, an AT gun with an AP strike of 6 and an HE strike of 3 would be 6 + 1.5 = 7.5 divided by two gives us a rating of 4. This normally includes a full strength crew and Junior Leader.

AFV's are rated on six things: Armour, AP, HE (or more to the point "anti-infantry") Speed, Secondary armament and "advantages and disadvantages".

Armour is rated according to thickness, as follows:
0 = none
1-8mm = 1
9-12mm = 2
13-20 = 3
21-30 = 4
31-50 = 5
51-65 = 6
66-80 = 7
81-100 = 8
100-121 = 9
121-140 = 10
141-150 = 11
151-170 = 12
171-185 = 13
186-200 = 14
201 - 250 = 15
251 plus = 16

We use the thickest frontal armour excluding the mantle. However, there are variations. Armour sloped 40 to 50 degrees adds +1 to the armour rating. 51 degrees and more adds +2.

Armour Piercing rating is based on military data and is based on mm of penetration at 250 to 500 yards. As follows

1-10mm = 1
11-20mm = 2
21-30mm = 3 etc

We use stats for the best and most widely available ammunition at any time. If it is as rare as hens' teeth we ignore it. That can be introduced in a specific scenario.

Cannons also have their AP factor increased to account for a greater volume of fire.

H.E. effect is actually better phrased as "anti-infantry effect", so a vehicle with an HMG is rated as 6, as it fires 6D6. A vehicle with an MMG or LMG, which do not reduce cover, is rated as 4, i.e. two thirds of an HMG. Other factors are based on the HE effect, thus:

1: At rilfe, solid shot like 2 pounder.
2. 20mm
3: 37mm
4: 50mm, 57mm, 6 pounder
5: 75mm high velocity, 76mm high velocity, 17 pounder
6: 75mm low velocity, 20mm cannon
7: 85mm, 90mm, 40mm AA cannon
8: High velocity 100mm
9: 95mm, 100mm
10: 105mm, 1110mm
11: 122mm, 125mm
12: A breathing space...
13: 150mm
16: AVRE, anything daftly large

Speed. Nice and easy. Top road speed.
Up to 30kmh = slow
21-45kmh = Average
46kmh = fast

We do take into account comments made at the time about poor cross country capability etc. Bt that tends to be covered by "advantages and disadvantages"

Secondary Armament.
None = 0
Co-axial MG only +1
Hull and co-axial +2
Secondary gun or superior armament +3

Advantages and Disadvantages
Add or Subtract one for things which help or hinder an AFV.

Small +1
Low profile +1
Heavy armour +1
Open top -1

To a degree, one needs to consider each vehicle on its merits. Stuff like fast traverse or slow turret I tend to ignore as the impact on the game is tiny. Ditto with Ronsons. You may feel differently.

Total all of the above and rate as follows:

2: up to 6 points total
3: 7 -9 points
4: 10-13 points
5: 14-16 points
6: 17-19 points
7: 20-22 points
8: 23-25 points
9: 26-28 points
10: 29-31 points
11: 32-34 points
12: 35-37 points

Transport Vehicles
These are rated according to three factors: Armour, Weapons and carrying capacity.
Armour uses the same ratings as AFVs. Weapons is only permanently mounted weapons (so not any weapons carried by the passengers. Carrying capacity is as follows:
Team +1
Section/Squad: +2
Two or more sections +3

As always, any comments are welcomed.

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Re: Official CoCulator

Postby Neil Todd » Thu Mar 26, 2015 12:08 pm

Fantastic, thank you Richard.

I am a little concerned with the cost of Assault Rifles but I guess time will tell.

Cheers Neil
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