Deploy and Activate?

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Richard
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Re: Deploy and Activate?

Post by Richard »

How could it deploy "behind" an enemy? Presumably any enemy moving past a Jump-Off point would move across it and shut it down. Even if they then move on past it the enemy will need to physically recapture it in order to use it again.

If, however, you move past an enemy Jump-Off point but fail to actually contact it, thereby shutting it down, then YES, absolutely they can. You have failed to observe the most basic of military tenets, to clear an area before moving on.

Rich

Alan Charlesworth
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Re: Deploy and Activate?

Post by Alan Charlesworth »

Alan Charlesworth wrote:I may have read the rules wrongly - but don't the following apply:

A jump off point is only out of action if the enemy are within 4".

A deploying unit can deploy within 4", 6" or 9" of a jump off point depending on their troop quality anywhere within that radius even if closer to the enemy. Cover is not required.

So if there was an enemy within say 5" of the jump off point the deploying unit could appear say 1" in front of that enemy or indeed behind the enemy if the deploying troops were Elite.

Is this intended? Particulary deploying in the rear of the enemy.

Rich. This is my post from earlier in this thread. You can see the example where an Elite unit potentially deploys behind an approaching enemy.

rmakowsky
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Re: Deploy and Activate?

Post by rmakowsky »

This all is falling under the "play the period not the rules". If a literal interpretation means troops can teleport behind advancing enemy, then you do not play it that way.

If a player insists on playing that way, tell them politely to find a game with other rules lawyer munchkins to play with.

fred
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Re: Deploy and Activate?

Post by fred »

I think that Rich's post supports the idea that Troops (especially Elites) can appear behind a force that is near to a Jump off point.

If your troops have stopped 5 or 6 inches away from an enemy JoP than things have probably gone a bit wrong with their move. You could consider this that they have been spooked by the hidden nearby enemy. Or just the threat of near by enemy.

The JoP is an abstraction it's self. It seems odd that you feel your troops moving to capture an abstract point on the table is OK. But the enemy deploying in an abstract way is gamey.

I think Rich's explanation is great, it highlights that there are subtleties to the battle field topography that can't be represented in the table. And that these subtleties may not even be apparent to both sets of troops at the same time.

One of the strengths of CoC is that by keeping a unit off table un-deployed it can move very quickly. But once on table it moves very slowly. But obviously off-table it can't provide any fire power. So knowing when to deploy and when not to is key.

Alan Charlesworth
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Re: Deploy and Activate?

Post by Alan Charlesworth »

rmakowsky wrote:This all is falling under the "play the period not the rules". If a literal interpretation means troops can teleport behind advancing enemy, then you do not play it that way.

If a player insists on playing that way, tell them politely to find a game with other rules lawyer munchkins to play with.

As I said in the earlier post:

"1. Do the rules really mean what they say? If you do what they say some will say you are a rules lawyer.

2. Do you apply common sense and do what you think the rules actualy meant rather than what they said. Now you are up against the fact that two people will often have two different ideas as to what is common sense."


This thread is a classic example of what I meant.

fisher40k
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Re: Deploy and Activate?

Post by fisher40k »

rmakowsky wrote:This all is falling under the "play the period not the rules". If a literal interpretation means troops can teleport behind advancing enemy, then you do not play it that way.

If a player insists on playing that way, tell them politely to find a game with other rules lawyer munchkins to play with.

I think the abstraction in the jump-off point gives you the warning that enemy troops may be in the area.

So they don't teleport behind you when you rashly move too close - but have been waiting for you to move by.

Given that you know the rules - ie that elites can deploy up to 9" from the jump-off point, if you suspect your opponent has such elite units undeployed then be careful as you approach.

You know the risks - this is playing the period not the rules, you know the enemy were in the area - do you want to risk how far they have gone past it in a rush to secure this jump-off?

If do get to the jump-off point before they can deploy then we assume they thought better of facing you there and slipped away to another location.

This to me is a really good way to have hidden or ambush units without needing to draw a map and have complicated spotting rules to force them being revealed.

rmakowsky
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Location: Rhinebeck, NY

Re: Deploy and Activate?

Post by rmakowsky »

Alan,

Please don't take what I am saying a direct attack, it is certainly not meant that way, and if it read as so, apologies. I will continue my response in your "play the period" topic which I think is a good one.

To go directly to this topic,

Yes, the rules allow you to deploy behind someone, but I would at least require that there is some sort of unobserved avenue of approach for troops to deploy that way, except when using the ambush rules.

Bob

Alan Charlesworth
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Re: Deploy and Activate?

Post by Alan Charlesworth »

Bob I am not in the least bit offended. I enjoy the discussion. :D

Richard
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Re: Deploy and Activate?

Post by Richard »

To be honest I think this is a nonsense discussion where the possibility of my unit being precisely 4.5" from an enemy jump off point, and an elite enemy unit deploying 4.5 inches behind them is so amazingly unlikely as to be utter bollocks. It's not even worth spending time talking about it.

Rich

Alan Charlesworth
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Re: Deploy and Activate?

Post by Alan Charlesworth »

Well like it or not the rules allow it. So it will happen in a game sooner or later. When it does I am sure the players concerned would like to know if it was intended to be a feature of the game by the author or not.

Is it so unreasonable to ask the question?

You did say in an earlier post:

" This is a central pillar of the rules and I am happy to discuss its nuances at length."

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