Deploying squad with Jr. Ldr

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MLB
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Re: Deploying squad with Jr. Ldr

Post by MLB » Sat Dec 15, 2018 9:14 pm

Greg Bradfield wrote:
Sat Dec 15, 2018 9:50 am
A section activating on a 2 both teams fire at the same target no splitting targets as they are under soldier own initiative and if one fires in the heat of battle all follow at the same target, it just shows the true nature of battle and the lack of control at that moment. A section activating on a 3 is under direct control of a leader who brings order and calm to the situation and therefore successfully direct fire on different targets using his CI's.
Yes, that’s my point. If a unit deploying with a leader can fire without the leader using CIs to have them do so, what exactly can they do? And why should this be any different from what they can do deploying and firing on a 2? As it stands the suggestion is neither act of firing requires use of CI. The alternative is a squad deploying and firing on a 3 must all fire at the same target unless the JL uses his CI to have them do otherwise.

My point is that making this different from a normal activation raises a number of questions that also need to be addressed.
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Truscott Trotter
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Re: Deploying squad with Jr. Ldr

Post by Truscott Trotter » Sat Dec 15, 2018 9:22 pm

They have always been different. Have a look at deploying on a 1 Vs activating on a 1.

Rich decided to make deployment different than activation for his own perceived rule design reasons it is not an error.

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Re: Deploying squad with Jr. Ldr

Post by Truscott Trotter » Sat Dec 15, 2018 9:25 pm

Seret wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:52 pm
Yup.

Same way you used to play it up until March this year ;)

Every other time they activate on a 3 you need to use one of those CIs to make them fire. We just treat deploying the same as any other time.
Was it only March?
Seems longer :roll:
Anyway giving all deploying units a free shot keeps it simple iMHO.

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Re: Deploying squad with Jr. Ldr

Post by Truscott Trotter » Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:34 pm

Just saw this on the yahoo group:
An exception is on the phase when the section deploys onto the table. Richard has confirmed that a unit deploying can also fire, as it is the last point when the leader has full control over their troops. In this case, the leader can also use their CI to do something special with a team, either 5RR or sniping with the bren in the British case.

Regards
Andrew HOLMES


Has Andrew spoken with Rich?
There seems to be two distinct schools of thought on this one
If you pay 1 CI to fire on deployment with a 3 then surely if you deploy on a 2 you cannot fire?
I think I am going to stay with the latest 'Richisim' on this one :D

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Re: Deploying squad with Jr. Ldr

Post by Munin » Wed Dec 19, 2018 12:54 am

Truscott Trotter wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:34 pm
If you pay 1 CI to fire on deployment with a 3 then surely if you deploy on a 2 you cannot fire?
Non sequitur; you pay 1 CI to fire on a turn where you didn't deploy, so why should deployment be different? Firing is allowed during an activation that includes deployment, only movement is disallowed.

Think of it during a normal turn - if you roll a 3 and use it to activate a JL, he must use one of his CI to give the unit a command (move, fire, lay down covering fire, go on overwatch, etc). The squad is only "activating" at the command of the JL. All that Seret is saying is that an activation that includes deployment should require use of a JL's CIs the same way an activation that does not include deployment requires them.

FWIW, I happen to agree with him. It keeps things consistent.

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Re: Deploying squad with Jr. Ldr

Post by Truscott Trotter » Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:27 am

ermm because deployment is different.
Personally I would have kept it the same but that was not Richs intention obviously
Anyway I am not going to lose any sleep over a 1 CI difference once per unit per game

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Re: Deploying squad with Jr. Ldr

Post by andyskinner » Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:19 pm

The justification Andrew gives in your quote is pretty much what Rich said in both videos where I saw him do this.

His intent seems to be clear.

andy
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Re: Deploying squad with Jr. Ldr

Post by Emilio » Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:52 pm

What is the difference between deploying on a 2 or on a 3? If you deploy on a 2, you can shoot. If you deploy in a three, the JL MUST spend both his CI to get his teams shooting. Then, is not a waste of resources? I ever thought that activation with a 3 gives more options to the squad. But now, if you need to spend both CI to shoot in deploying, but none if deploying in a 2, were is the advantage? I think that Rich is right, and on deploying a squad can shoot ever. Then, with a 3 the JL still has his 2 CI to do something more.

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Re: Deploying squad with Jr. Ldr

Post by Arlequín » Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:53 pm

The 3 gives the option of doing the same as what the squad would do on a 2, or the NCO can use his CI remove shock, but not both.

When you consider that a SL only has one more pip and can only activate a squad to shoot and have two CI left if he does, it makes the idea of a JL activating his men to shoot and also having 2 CI still to use a bit silly.

With deployment, as Andy says, the CI use is the act of deploying... which RAW supports.

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Re: Deploying squad with Jr. Ldr

Post by Seret » Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:04 am

Truscott Trotter wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:34 pm
If you pay 1 CI to fire on deployment with a 3 then surely if you deploy on a 2 you cannot fire?
You can always fire when you activate using a 2, why would deployment be different?

You only need to use a CI to get the unit to fire because when you use a 1 or 2 you're activating the unit, but when you use a 3 or a 4 you're not activating the unit, you're activating the leader. But the leader can then use a CI to activate the unit to fire.
andyskinner wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:19 pm
His intent seems to be clear.
It does now, but it does seem to differ from what he intended when he wrote the rules, and how everybody has been playing it the last few years. Personally, I don't feel that it fixes anything that needed fixing, and think the rules are better if you just apply the same rules for activation consistently. It's just simpler, and always worked fine before, so my group isn't going to change the way we play. If others want to go with Rich's new rule, go for it, but I don't quite see the point.

To be honest, we've also not bothered implementing his new stuff from the FAQ about limited grenade supplies either, we never had a problem with grenade spamming before. But at least that one was written down so if someone wanted to be a stickler about it then that's legit.

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