FO Killed or wounded - a ‘bad thing’?

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FO Killed or wounded - a ‘bad thing’?

Postby sjwalker51 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:20 pm

What’s the consensus? If a mortar battery FO is Killed (p39, 9.1.1 Hits on Leaders and FOs) I assume it’s a Bad Thing (Support Unit Killed p65).

But what if he’s only wounded and cannot then move? He’s not a Leader, so presumably does not test for being wounded?

Although it’s not explicitly stated, I assume that the death of the FO will end the barrage at the end of the phase in which he’s killed? Or does it end immediately after he is Killed, meaning that sections not yet activated in that phase then become unPinned and able to move/fire etc as normal?

Yes, I’m anticipating possible situations in tomorrow’s game!
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Re: FO Killed or wounded - a ‘bad thing’?

Postby Archdukek » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:50 pm

If he is killed it's a Bad Things Happen roll as you say and it would be if he is forced to retire. If he is wounded but stays on table then there is no effect on Force Morale.
If he is killed as far as I can see the barrage will continue unti Turn End because there is no way to stop it earlier other than by the FO doing so and he can't. It just means that you no longer test for casualties for troops under the barrage, but they remain pinned unti the barrage lifts at Turn End.

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Re: FO Killed or wounded - a ‘bad thing’?

Postby Eclaireur » Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:16 pm

John - only just read your answer to this. I get that a dead FO's barrage would keep falling until the end of turn. But why would it not continue to cause casualties? Is there a specific rule reference to that? The shells would be just as lethal surely?
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Re: FO Killed or wounded - a ‘bad thing’?

Postby Peter » Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:37 pm

Because casualties are only inflicted when the FOO is activated.
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Re: FO Killed or wounded - a ‘bad thing’?

Postby Eclaireur » Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:53 pm

Thanks Peter.
Still puzzled as to the logic behind it. Of course you can't move the barrage if the FO's dead. And as John said, I can see you can't halt it either. But the idea it has an effect (pinning) without the possibility of harming people seems very odd to me. #JustSayin
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Re: FO Killed or wounded - a ‘bad thing’?

Postby Truscott Trotter » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:00 pm

You are not alone - :lol:

I think it is a game design thing- rationalise it as the men are too afraid to run in case more mortars land.

In the accounts I have read of Nomrandy and the EF they both mention hearing the crump of the mortar and knowing it was on the way you had a few seconds to take cover.

If you didn't hear a crump you ran to better cover like trenches (only really safe place is a deep slit trench - even in 1940 the Brits learned to dig deep , fast and often ;) ), walls etc
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Re: FO Killed or wounded - a ‘bad thing’?

Postby Truscott Trotter » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:08 pm

sjwalker51 wrote:What’s the consensus? If a mortar battery FO is Killed (p39, 9.1.1 Hits on Leaders and FOs) I assume it’s a Bad Thing (Support Unit Killed p65).

But what if he’s only wounded and cannot then move? He’s not a Leader, so presumably does not test for being wounded?

Although it’s not explicitly stated, I assume that the death of the FO will end the barrage at the end of the phase in which he’s killed? Or does it end immediately after he is Killed, meaning that sections not yet activated in that phase then become unPinned and able to move/fire etc as normal?

Yes, I’m anticipating possible situations in tomorrow’s game!


To answer the original question:
FOO killed - roll on support unit killed on BTH table
FOO wounded - soldiers shrug and say bloody artillery :roll:
(I would like to see a rule where FOO's suffer same number of wounds as an SL - stopping the indestructible FOO that takes 5 wounds and carries on.)

Barrage only ends when the turn ends (I do not like this but at least there are no more casualties with a dead FOO)
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Re: FO Killed or wounded - a ‘bad thing’?

Postby Archdukek » Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:37 pm

Eclaireur wrote:Thanks Peter.
Still puzzled as to the logic behind it. Of course you can't move the barrage if the FO's dead. And as John said, I can see you can't halt it either. But the idea it has an effect (pinning) without the possibility of harming people seems very odd to me. #JustSayin
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Eclaireur,
As TT says, I think it is a game design point, generally in the game you can't inflict casualties on your opponent without using a Command die or Command initiative and this mechanism reflects that. I think it also reflects that somewhat more random nature of mortar casualties once the initial barrage has landed and the enemy take cover.

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Re: FO Killed or wounded - a ‘bad thing’?

Postby Seret » Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:56 am

It doesn't really make a lot of sense that the barrage continues after the observer dies. It's not like the mortars will keep firing without being given orders. The way they work is that they're told to fire a set number of rounds (about 5 or so). If they complete that and don't receive an order to adjust or repeat they'll cease fire automatically (and quite possibly move).

Mortars in the game start firing and then continue until told to stop, which isn't how it actually worked in reality. I think it would be better if the barrage ended, either immediately or maybe after the next phase to represent time of flight.
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Re: FO Killed or wounded - a ‘bad thing’?

Postby andysyk » Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:31 pm

Hmmm, the problem is the rules don't specify what the Fire Order is, as Seret says it is set in reality. I think that it doesn't end immediately is maybe trying to represent this, that rounds may not be complete but its a bit wooly.
But if the Barrage does continue in game, honestly what Eclaireur is saying is common sense, you should still have to test for casualties, a Mortar bomb doesn't become less lethal because no ones watching its effect.
More random after taking cover? No, come on you would have to apply that to everything incoming so if a team is fired on in two consecutive phases on the second one it doesn't test for casualties?
Mortars are the Infantrymans nightmare.
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