ELITES - A CAUTIONARY TALE

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Re: ELITES - A CAUTIONARY TALE

Postby Munin » Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:34 pm

I cannot stress this enough - do NOT give anybody 4 or 6 Command Dice. The game is intended for 5 and works very well at 5. Giving more or fewer Command Dice radically changes the activation and multiple-phase probability curves. The difference in the odds of being hit and the quality in close combat is more than sufficient to distinguish between green, regular, and elite troops.
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Re: ELITES - A CAUTIONARY TALE

Postby pedivere » Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:13 pm

the elite formations might be a bit abused or overused in WW2 wargaming, because of the fancy uniforms.
The rarity could better reflected by rolling dice whether the commander actually gets to use elite or not...
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Re: ELITES - A CAUTIONARY TALE

Postby Captain W Martin » Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:47 pm

Do you need to adjust the force rating on a platoon if the 6th dice is just a command dice as opposed to a phase dice?

I.e. Does the Brit Airborne list drop in points?
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Re: ELITES - A CAUTIONARY TALE

Postby Munin » Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:58 pm

I don't modify the Force Ratings, no.
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Re: ELITES - A CAUTIONARY TALE

Postby MLB » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:03 pm

While I agree on the 5 vs 6 dice discussion, I don't have a problem with the lower chances to hit. In the example above I don't see Rangers charging down a road impervious to fire, but well trained troops moving down a road and making the most effective use of available cover, spreading out and in rushes.
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Re: ELITES - A CAUTIONARY TALE

Postby Truscott Trotter » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:52 pm

MLB wrote:While I agree on the 5 vs 6 dice discussion, I don't have a problem with the lower chances to hit. In the example above I don't see Rangers charging down a road impervious to fire, but well trained troops moving down a road and making the most effective use of available cover, spreading out and in rushes.


I suspect Rich might agree with this :D
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Re: ELITES - A CAUTIONARY TALE

Postby Magpie » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:19 pm

Yes they should perhaps benefit from their greater experience under fire, but making them more or less invulnerable is over stating that experience.
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Re: ELITES - A CAUTIONARY TALE

Postby redmist1122 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:05 am

Oh...one more time here...I did fail to add...the infamous crappy die roll. Changing the rules for crappy die roll is well...crappy. Buy new dice or just don't use the force ratings...this is too easy. I don't make rules modifications to suit a bad outcome.

I'm sure Rich and his crew have play-tested the crap out these rules and kept it as is for those rare occasion you may field that "elite" unit.

I completely agree with Pedivre as it is too easy to abuse the elite status. In lieu of "Elites", have you tried "Superior Regulars?"
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Re: ELITES - A CAUTIONARY TALE

Postby Groupe_Franc » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:38 am

I've been following this thread with interest because I'm painting a force of fallschirmjagers. So I'm curious, where can I find a writeup on "Superior Regulars"? TIA
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Re: ELITES - A CAUTIONARY TALE

Postby Victor » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:40 am

I haven't used elites, but mathematically, the -1 to hit elites works out the same as increasing cover by level. Going through it, lets say you roll 24 dice on regulars in light cover at close range. There will be 12 hits (4+). Of those hit, there will be a combo of 6 shocks/kills (4+) on them. If the regulars are in hard cover, it becomes a combo of 4 shocks/kills (5+).

If shooting the 24 dice at elites in light cover, there are 8 hits (5+). There will be a combo of 4 shocks/kills (4+) on them. So shooting at elites in light cover is the same as shooting at regulars in hard cover.

It doesn't seem that OP (to me at least) given there is an extra 50% cost in running them. However, as I mentioned, I haven't run them, but will once my US paratroopers are painted up :D
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