ANCIENT SHARP PRACTICE - INFAMY! INFAMY!

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genew49
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Re: ANCIENT SHARP PRACTICE

Post by genew49 »

Thanks John.

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Snowcat
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Re: ANCIENT SHARP PRACTICE

Post by Snowcat »

"Yes Rich and I are swapping ideas!"

Excellent news indeed!!!

8-)

Cheers
"When one goes, one must go with style."

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Ivan Zaitzev
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Re: ANCIENT SHARP PRACTICE

Post by Ivan Zaitzev »

Thanks for that answer!

John_savage_uk
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Re: ANCIENT SHARP PRACTICE

Post by John_savage_uk »

We are making progress!

Caught up with Rich today and kicked some ideas around.

Romans are taking shape nicely and some interesting ideas for the barbarians which should make them fun and interesting to play!

More play testing soon.

John

edleland
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Re: ANCIENT SHARP PRACTICE

Post by edleland »

So, the real question is how many Barbarians do I really need for this? Would the SPQR starter set ( 41 + 12 archers) be enough? The price is right for the starter set, but damn, those new Victrix Germans look good!

John_savage_uk
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Re: ANCIENT SHARP PRACTICE

Post by John_savage_uk »

SPA (like SP) is a large skirmish rather than the more traditional small skirmish games such as SPQR which tend to have a dozen or so figures a side (more a scuffle than a skirmish 😉). To give you an idea of size (but clearly how big or small is entirely down to you) these are the forces I ran for the game at The Other Partizan.

Britons had 4 groups of tribal warriors (40 figures), 1 group of naked fanatics (10 figures), 2 groups of slingers (12 figures), 1 group of chariots (4 chariots) and a group of wardogs (8 dogs) plus half a dozen Leader figures. In total about 75 figures and 5 chariots (one of the leaders was in a chariot).

Against this were 2 groups of legionaries (16 figures), 3 groups of auxiliaries (24 figures), 1 group of auxiliary cavalry (8 figures), 1 group of auxiliary archers (8 figures) and a scorpion bolt thrower plus again about half a dozen leaders. So about 62 figures and a bolt thrower.

That’s probably roughly about twice the SPQR starter set for both sides.

Core forces are (at the moment anyway) structured in a similar way to SP so typically 4-5 groups with the option to add additional supports. So a core force will be about 50-60 figures per side

However, this was a decent sized game. No reason why you couldn’t play with smaller forces. The SPQR set would give you decent start with 4 groups of tribal warriors and a couple of skirmish groups and a small Roman force.

Hope that helps.

John

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Snowcat
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Re: ANCIENT SHARP PRACTICE

Post by Snowcat »

John, any indication as to the period the game is likely to cover at this early stage? e.g. just Rome vs barbarians? Or back to classical Greeks vs Persians? Further back to Egyptians or even earlier? Ahead to the Dark Ages and Norman invasion or later?

Or is Rich just keen to get some basic mechanics between Romans and Celts/Germans working for now, with no firm ideas for the period(s) the game could cover?

Cheers
"When one goes, one must go with style."

John_savage_uk
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Re: ANCIENT SHARP PRACTICE

Post by John_savage_uk »

I can’t speak for Rich, but I know he is interested in Romans v various hairy barbarian types. So far I’ve got list for Early Imperial Romans, Britons, Germans and Dacians which we are working on. A few small tweaks to the Roman list should bring Caesarian and Britons to Gauls so these are likely to be added as well. We both want to do Republican Roman so bring in Carthage, Spanish etc for a Punic War themed set of lists. This then potentially brings in Successors. There are some fundamental issues with pike armies though in SP (or any skirmish game really) but plenty of opportunities to bring in light troops, hypapists etc which for raids, scouting missions etc which would suit the scale of SP better. However I know Rich has little interest in Eastern armies such as Parthians or Sassanids. Going further back to Greeks and Persians does have interest for me (and given the success of games like Mortal Gods I would suggest there would potentially be demand for this as well (albeit you’ve similar issues with representing hoplite warfare).

Personally I want to push SP forward as well. I’ve drafted a Dark Age list which includes Saxons, Vikings and Norman’s and as I’ve said before I want to do an early Medieval list (including a band of forest dwelling outlaws). Although again Rich has indicated he doesn’t see SP Ancients going much past 500AD. Having said that once you’ve got the core mechanics nailed it would be relatively easy for a range of official list written by others in the same way as the force selectors work for CoC.

Having said all that the one thing that I have realized is it takes time to pull these together. Principally in the play testing. So none of this is going to happen overnight.

Hopefully we’ll get the core rules and “armies and enemies of Rome” done fairly quickly. If these are a commercial success for Rich and there is clear customer demand then who knows where this could go! I know Rich has already said no to Sumerians, but what’s not to like about mule chariots 😂! Maybe Nick can be persuaded to do a version of “What a Tanker” for Assyrian and Egyptian chariots! 🤔 Now there’s an idea!

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sjwalker51
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Re: ANCIENT SHARP PRACTICE

Post by sjwalker51 »

That’ll be “What An Onager” presumably?

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Snowcat
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Re: ANCIENT SHARP PRACTICE

Post by Snowcat »

John, I totally agree re the difficulty of trying to shoehorn phalangites and hoplites into a skirmish game. It's been done recently by other skirmish systems, but I see the issue. Even pikemen in 'Pikemen's Lament' don't seem quite right to me; it's as if they should be replaced by something else for such small missions.

Getting Imperial Romans and earlier hairy Germans sorted effectively gives you the toolbox for the later Franks and Alamanni types; the rules for pilum become usable for francisca and angon, etc.

Assuming some kind of horse archer finds its way into the rules, this could be transferable to Scythians, Parthians, Huns, etc with only minor variations and tweaking. Imagine Hunnic raiding parties swarming into regions held by Goths and Romans...such fun!

I can see SPA/ASP working equally nicely for the chariot era. Imagine an Assyrian prince in his chariot, leading a bodyguard and other assorted followers on missions against anyone unfortunate enough to have upset the Assyrians at that time...! The sky is the limit really.

I'm confident this system - even limited to the armies and enemies of Rome initially - would be a big success for the Lardies. It's perfect for all those gamers/collectors who use 15mm armies for bigger set battles, but who also have - or like the idea of having - a smaller number of 28mm figures to use for ancient skirmish games using Lardy rules. Not that you can't skirmish with 15s; there's just an obvious appeal to doing it with 28s.

I'll be following each and every development with great interest!

Keep us posted. :)

Cheers
"When one goes, one must go with style."

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